The 222's main gun is fine. It can't be too strong like luchs because of the fuel cost.
But the problem is 222 comes out too late. Ostheer is the only faction who don't have very-early light vehicles. It only has 200 HP, the same level as M3,WC51 and Kubel. But compared to the others, it comes out at about 5 min when it can be easily detroyed by a ton of counters. Also, the armor of 222 is too low.
Maybe buffing the 222's HP slightly and increasing fuel cost slightly will make this unit more usefull. For now , it is not worth building this unit.
Luchs and 222
6 Nov 2014, 01:18 AM
#21
Posts: 482
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6 Nov 2014, 01:23 AM
#22
Posts: 4928
According to the animation the 222 actually uses AP shots and the Luchs HEI shells. This could explain the difference in anti personell effectiveness. But the anti vehicle effectiveness would be better.
How can you tell that? I'm interested in what "according to the animation" means.
Also the 222 has higher penetration and damage per-shot than the Luchs, which I suppose does support the "AP shots" theory. The 222 has 35-35-35 while the Luchs has 25-20-15.
Interestingly, that makes the 222 one of the very few vehicles with flat penetration, along with the KV-8's 45mm. They may be others but I haven't seen 'em.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
6 Nov 2014, 06:35 AM
#23
Posts: 322
The 222's main gun is fine. It can't be too strong like luchs because of the fuel cost.
But the problem is 222 comes out too late. Ostheer is the only faction who don't have very-early light vehicles. It only has 200 HP, the same level as M3,WC51 and Kubel. But compared to the others, it comes out at about 5 min when it can be easily detroyed by a ton of counters. Also, the armor of 222 is too low.
Maybe buffing the 222's HP slightly and increasing fuel cost slightly will make this unit more usefull. For now , it is not worth building this unit.
Ive always felt that the 222 needed its vet 2 health bonus.. it was fine before when it had it.
6 Nov 2014, 06:42 AM
#24
Posts: 2070
Hmm 222 comes out around 5 minute? The darn Puma can come out around that time and is vastly superior
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
6 Nov 2014, 07:13 AM
#25
Posts: 1820 | Subs: 2
222 is fine as it is, buffing its health or armor would make everyone rush it so it would be the new meta. Early game it's great for supporting your units and even killin lonely squads on retreat. But when other light vehicles come around then you need to start using it as a harassement unit or a scout vehicle due to its good sight range. It does require alot of babysitting but once you have that kind of micro, this unit can even shine late game. If upgraded with spotting scopes, this thing is a hax. 
6 Nov 2014, 07:54 AM
#26
8 Posts: 2470
is people rushing it an issue? soviets have lots of good counters to it early game, some of them very hard, and USF has decent to hard options as well. i could see spam being an issue but that can be affected with cost changes.
i don't think it needs more health though. armour maybe, or better (more consistent?) dps (not much), or to just come out a little earlier.
the 222 doesn't do well against hard AT counters, and never will, but it's not even very effective against infantry and it comes out quite late.
i don't think it needs more health though. armour maybe, or better (more consistent?) dps (not much), or to just come out a little earlier.
the 222 doesn't do well against hard AT counters, and never will, but it's not even very effective against infantry and it comes out quite late.
6 Nov 2014, 08:04 AM
#27
4 
Posts: 369
Lol, I pretty much get a 222 every game I play as wehr (will admit I haven't played a lot of wehr lately, but still 
). I don't think it's bad at all
). I don't think it's bad at all
6 Nov 2014, 08:20 AM
#28
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
Lol, I pretty much get a 222 every game I play as wehr (will admit I haven't played a lot of wehr lately, but still
Since WFA the 222 isn't what it was anymore. I stopped building it since WFA. Pz II Luchs on the other hand is a devil against infantry and not only! It has rather good performances against any kind of halftrack and medium performance against light tanks also. If you're going T2-T4 as OKW (assuming that T2 is the building with leigh infantry gun and Jagdpanzer) the Luchs is a must.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
6 Nov 2014, 08:28 AM
#29
Posts: 112
the problem is that is so fu fast also. it is hard to kill. Compared to t70 deals more damage, more fast. almost impossible to kill with t34
6 Nov 2014, 09:44 AM
#30
Posts: 2819
Because when you field a Luchs, you could field a P4.
No man, absolutely not.
All posts made are about situations in 2v2's. Not a 1v1 player.
6 Nov 2014, 09:47 AM
#31
4 
Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2
How can you tell that? I'm interested in what "according to the animation" means.
....
you know, like 222 bullets explode like sherman ap rounds and p2 bullets explode like sherman he shells.
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6 Nov 2014, 09:48 AM
#32
Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2
Permanently Bannedmax range 222 is really tough to stop.
id like to see an hp buff
id like to see an hp buff
There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
6 Nov 2014, 09:53 AM
#33
Posts: 281
222 needs a hp buff, it dies to fast for its cost.
6 Nov 2014, 10:24 AM
#34
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
-222 comes same tiers as Pak40 and PGs.
-Dodge is a doctrinal unit
-M20 comes in a tiers without AT capabilities
-M3 scout car comes from in a tiers without AT capabilities
-Kubel is Koningkubel and comes in a tiers with AT capabilities.
The "asymmetrical balance" may come from that. If you increase 222 health, you'll need a really AT capability to deal with so force people into a unique playstyle, or you need to align the balance by providing AT capabilities in every tiers to each faction.
Going M20 or dodge or M3 is a high risk / high reward option
-High risk because you only rely on soft AT counter to deal with light and medium vehicles until you can unblock the next tier.
Going 222 is not an high risk / high reward option since it comes in a tier with Hard and soft AT capabilities.
In fact, you can build Pak first and 222 or 222 first and pak next.
-Dodge is a doctrinal unit
-M20 comes in a tiers without AT capabilities
-M3 scout car comes from in a tiers without AT capabilities
-Kubel is Koningkubel and comes in a tiers with AT capabilities.
The "asymmetrical balance" may come from that. If you increase 222 health, you'll need a really AT capability to deal with so force people into a unique playstyle, or you need to align the balance by providing AT capabilities in every tiers to each faction.
Going M20 or dodge or M3 is a high risk / high reward option
-High risk because you only rely on soft AT counter to deal with light and medium vehicles until you can unblock the next tier.
Going 222 is not an high risk / high reward option since it comes in a tier with Hard and soft AT capabilities.
In fact, you can build Pak first and 222 or 222 first and pak next.
6 Nov 2014, 10:51 AM
#35
Posts: 1130
-222 comes same tiers as Pak40 and PGs.
-Dodge is a doctrinal unit
-M20 comes in a tiers without AT capabilities
-M3 scout car comes from in a tiers without AT capabilities
-Kubel is Koningkubel and comes in a tiers with AT capabilities.
The "asymmetrical balance" may come from that. If you increase 222 health, you'll need a really AT capability to deal with so force people into a unique playstyle, or you need to align the balance by providing AT capabilities in every tiers to each faction.
Going M20 or dodge or M3 is a high risk / high reward option
-High risk because you only rely on soft AT counter to deal with light and medium vehicles until you can unblock the next tier.
Going 222 is not an high risk / high reward option since it comes in a tier with Hard and soft AT capabilities.
In fact, you can build Pak first and 222 or 222 first and pak next.
Nonsense. the soviets can have both tier 1 and tier 2 out before the 222/flaktrack comes out.
the 222 needs to be buffed (and perhaps a price increase) because of the rather insane teching cost disparities between the ostheer and usf, the power of early game rifleman and the impact usf m20/flacktack has on the midgame. i rather see the 222 to be equal in power to usf flacktrack when it comes to killing light tanks and vehicles but nowhere near the AI power.
horrida flamma bella
6 Nov 2014, 11:26 AM
#36
Posts: 56
How can you tell that? I'm interested in what "according to the animation" means.
you know, like 222 bullets explode like sherman ap rounds and p2 bullets explode like sherman he shells.
Yes.
The 222 shots actually don't explode at all. They impact.
The projectiles fired by the Luchs are actually shells and explode on impact. They go boom and you see sparks (incendiary filler) etc flying around.
The shots of the 222 only kick up some dirt.
The sound also refelcts that. The Luchs shots sound allmost like echoing. Bang of the shot being fired followed by boom on impact. The 222 only goes bang. More like a large machine gun.
That is more or less how the animations of the M4 work. The AP kicks up dirt on impact. While the HE goes boom and explodes.
...maybe you need to have actual real life experience with (auto)cannons to see the difference but it is modeled in the animations.
6 Nov 2014, 11:34 AM
#37
Posts: 1740
It's how it was back in the Alpha.
222 was shit as hell and absolutely not worth the cost.
Then with one of the first patches it became pretty good and was a very viable unit until it was nerfed again (but I don't remember that tbh. I guess it was patched because nowadays it doesn't do much damage. Maybe weapon profiles?).
However now it is not in a good state. IMO it's main reason is to hunt M3 and Snipers but I have never EVER managed to kill a sniper team because the 222 gun. Especially on retreating units it doesn't do the slightest bit of damage.
222 was shit as hell and absolutely not worth the cost.
Then with one of the first patches it became pretty good and was a very viable unit until it was nerfed again (but I don't remember that tbh. I guess it was patched because nowadays it doesn't do much damage. Maybe weapon profiles?).
However now it is not in a good state. IMO it's main reason is to hunt M3 and Snipers but I have never EVER managed to kill a sniper team because the 222 gun. Especially on retreating units it doesn't do the slightest bit of damage.
It is though God by command has withdrawn every other throne.
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
6 Nov 2014, 12:00 PM
#38
Posts: 394
222 is fine as it is, buffing its health or armor would make everyone rush it so it would be the new meta. Early game it's great for supporting your units and even killin lonely squads on retreat. But when other light vehicles come around then you need to start using it as a harassement unit or a scout vehicle due to its good sight range. It does require alot of babysitting but once you have that kind of micro, this unit can even shine late game. If upgraded with spotting scopes, this thing is a hax.
Rubbish.
It dies with one AT gun shot, is as good as dead if it gets AT naded and if it hits any kind of mine its dead. Guards kill it with ease.
Mind showing me some replays against players that aren't scrubs, when you have used a 222 effectively and harrased and scouted with it, more then once without it dying?
Porygon Wrote:
I don't like Soviet neither, but please cake, just fuck off back to the official noob forum.
Vetlolcake:
Should i just attack move to get there? I might get there easier. Like sovs do
I don't like Soviet neither, but please cake, just fuck off back to the official noob forum.
Vetlolcake:
Should i just attack move to get there? I might get there easier. Like sovs do
6 Nov 2014, 12:30 PM
#39
Posts: 353
arr like Kwk43 88mm/L71 Kingtiger lower penetration than PAK43 and Elefant
6 Nov 2014, 13:34 PM
#40
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Rubbish.
It dies with one AT gun shot, is as good as dead if it gets AT naded and if it hits any kind of mine its dead. Guards kill it with ease.
Mind showing me some replays against players that aren't scrubs, when you have used a 222 effectively and harrased and scouted with it, more then once without it dying?
210mp 15f 200hp 11/5.5 armor
190mp 15f 200hp 5.4/2.7 armor
Guess which units are we looking at here.
PD: AT guns do 160dmg.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
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