Poll: Do Soviets need a major faction redesign?
Posts: 2070
1. Major dependence on doctrinal units and abilities
2. Underperforming nondoctrinal units
3. Inflexible tech system
Dependence on Commanders
The two biggest examples of this is the locking of three good tanks behind commanders, the ISU152, IS2, and the T34/85. Now if their core roster was good enough, then this would just be icing on the cake, but it is not. Look at the Axis factions. They Ostheer have the very potent Panther as a nondoctrinal unit while the closest competitor the Soviets have is the T34/85, which is locked behind a Panther. The OKW also have axis to the Panther, and the NONDOCTRINAL KINGTIGER, one of the deadliest tanks in the game.
Elite infantry is also another example. While the Axis have access to Panzer Grenadiers, and the mighty Obersoldaten as stock elite infantry, the USSR must CHOOSE a doctrine just to have the same thing. Shocks and Guards are locked away behind a specific commander. Combined with tanks that are commander-specific, you can see why the SOviets are tied to specific doctrines who have good tanks and/or elite infantry. This leads to my next point
Underperforming Nondoctrinal Units
Where to begin? Every faction has their own underperforming units so i will just point out the major ones.
Conscripts!!!! For the love of god, why doesn't this unit scale? Vet3 conscripts still die rather quickly. vet0 LMG Grens could probably take out a vet3 cons squad. Conscripts are the supposed to be the bread and butter of the Soviet faction (read their unit description), yet they perform worse than every other base fighting unit in the game (even Ostruppen?). This funnels players into choosing a specific commander even more due to a lack of infantry that scale. THere is a lot more to say, but i will keep this brief for now.
Other underperforming units include the infamous SU76, and the outdated SU85. Soviet units are also outclassed by their German counterparts as well, except snipers and some units here and there that are up for debate.
Inflexible Tech System
Realistically, most SOviet players go for max two buildings. Going for all of the tech buildings is just suicide because of the cost (plus who would want those underperforming units. I have never seen a strategy game that has a faction that is DESIGNED TO BE INFLEXIBLE! Strategy games are about choice and decision making. As a Soviet player, if you build the wrong building, or choose the wrong commander, YOU ARE AT A MAJOR DISADVANTAGE WITHOUT EVEN HAVING UNITS ON THE FIELD YET! The Soviet tech structure is the antithesis of a good strategy game. You realistically only have access to half of your army's units, and they are lackluster to every German unit in the game as well.
Posts: 110
If it's just tier pricing or changing non doctrinal units it can be done.
Posts: 101
maybe KV-1
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Posts: 1042
Maybe it will be a wake up call for Relic... (though probably not...)
Posts: 482
Team weapons and snipers should never be main army, they were support units and especially the snipers should be nerfed a bit.
Posts: 322
I think it's true that small changes to units could allow more diversity within the faction, for example vet3 bonus for scrips (base unit is fine early game), more defined role for some units such as penal, and basically anything that encourages using core troops rather than massive support.
Tech and Doctrine choices are trade-offs like many others in the game, albeit with more resounding consequences.
Posts: 135
Posts: 2742
T1>T2orT3>T4
T0:Conscript/Penals.
T1:Core infantry Unit with PTRS purchase. Sniper. Scout car. (Rather it be a Zi5/6 that can upgun to an mg, while I'm dreaming.)
T2:Maxim, mortar, and ZiS
T3:T70 and SU-76, Katyusha
T4:T34/76, SU-85, Shock Troopers, and either global or individual upgunning for T34s and SUs.
This is more or less reminiscent of the original Wehrmacht, but I really feel that the current tier system hamstrings the shock value of at least half the soviet army.
This way fuel could be utilized in non-linear ways while still fielding units with some semblance of shock value and utility.
Posts: 135
Posts: 379
Posts: 2070
I said no, but I think call ons for all teams need a bit of a redesign so they don't become the focus of your "tech". The one big difference between the first company of heroes and this one is that you can't scout an opponents tech in this game due to the call on heavy meta. Even if you see a doctrinal specific unit like Shock Troops so many commanders have access to it that it doesn't inform you that you need to prep for an IS-2
Well most of the competitive Soviet Doctrines have some sort of tank call-in, so it is best to prep nonetheless
Posts: 61
Posts: 162
Posts: 978
I think an easy fix would be to add a global veterancy upgrade building ala the kampfkraft center from COH1. This allows soviet units to scale later in the gamr by having guaranteed vet units.This design was flawed in the original Coh. I remember threads with the name "Wehrmacht vet - the cancer of Coh". So that´s not a good option. Also it would be silly to have vet 3 T-34/85s from the stock, making StuGs and Panzer IVs even weaker in comparison.
Posts: 1439
With my recent Soviet play I'd usually go t1/t2 then quick t3 and T-34, followed by a commander that have call ins.
If I go for a doctrine without call ins I'd go t4 so I can get SU-85.
Rest is execution.
Posts: 301
Posts: 281
tier 3 should be the motorpool, halftrack, su-76 and t-70.
And tier 4 should have katuhsya and t-34/76 and su-85.
to make the soviet late game without doctrinal tanks more flexible.
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