Poll: Do Soviets need a major faction redesign?

THe Soviet faction is in desperate need of a redesign. They have several glaring issues:

1. Major dependence on doctrinal units and abilities
2. Underperforming nondoctrinal units
3. Inflexible tech system

Dependence on Commanders

The two biggest examples of this is the locking of three good tanks behind commanders, the ISU152, IS2, and the T34/85. Now if their core roster was good enough, then this would just be icing on the cake, but it is not. Look at the Axis factions. They Ostheer have the very potent Panther as a nondoctrinal unit while the closest competitor the Soviets have is the T34/85, which is locked behind a Panther. The OKW also have axis to the Panther, and the NONDOCTRINAL KINGTIGER, one of the deadliest tanks in the game.
Elite infantry is also another example. While the Axis have access to Panzer Grenadiers, and the mighty Obersoldaten as stock elite infantry, the USSR must CHOOSE a doctrine just to have the same thing. Shocks and Guards are locked away behind a specific commander. Combined with tanks that are commander-specific, you can see why the SOviets are tied to specific doctrines who have good tanks and/or elite infantry. This leads to my next point

Underperforming Nondoctrinal Units

Where to begin? Every faction has their own underperforming units so i will just point out the major ones.
Conscripts!!!! For the love of god, why doesn't this unit scale? Vet3 conscripts still die rather quickly. vet0 LMG Grens could probably take out a vet3 cons squad. Conscripts are the supposed to be the bread and butter of the Soviet faction (read their unit description), yet they perform worse than every other base fighting unit in the game (even Ostruppen?). This funnels players into choosing a specific commander even more due to a lack of infantry that scale. THere is a lot more to say, but i will keep this brief for now.
Other underperforming units include the infamous SU76, and the outdated SU85. Soviet units are also outclassed by their German counterparts as well, except snipers and some units here and there that are up for debate.

Inflexible Tech System

Realistically, most SOviet players go for max two buildings. Going for all of the tech buildings is just suicide because of the cost (plus who would want those underperforming units. I have never seen a strategy game that has a faction that is DESIGNED TO BE INFLEXIBLE! Strategy games are about choice and decision making. As a Soviet player, if you build the wrong building, or choose the wrong commander, YOU ARE AT A MAJOR DISADVANTAGE WITHOUT EVEN HAVING UNITS ON THE FIELD YET! The Soviet tech structure is the antithesis of a good strategy game. You realistically only have access to half of your army's units, and they are lackluster to every German unit in the game as well.

There will never be a rework (that includes currently doctrinal units) because Relic can't touch DLC commanders they sold.

If it's just tier pricing or changing non doctrinal units it can be done.

major nerfs to some units
maybe KV-1

I'm a newbie compared to most of the people here, so I'll just say Soviets don't *feel* like Soviets at all, unless you go for Soviet Industry. Hell, the *Germans* feel more like Soviets with their infantry blobs.

I dont think that Soviets need a major overhaul, i however voted for the 2nd option.

I'me honestly not expecting anything much to be done either, but I was thinking it would be worth getting some solid statistics on people's opinions on the Soviets currently...

Maybe it will be a wake up call for Relic... (though probably not...)

They should buff conscripts,this unit is really UP now,it is shit from the beginning to the end of games. But where is the soviet regular army??

Team weapons and snipers should never be main army, they were support units and especially the snipers should be nerfed a bit.

I like the design, and there are plenty of other factions to play when you get bored of the play-style.

I think it's true that small changes to units could allow more diversity within the faction, for example vet3 bonus for scrips (base unit is fine early game), more defined role for some units such as penal, and basically anything that encourages using core troops rather than massive support.

Tech and Doctrine choices are trade-offs like many others in the game, albeit with more resounding consequences.

We just need to continue to push this issue, if relic really cares about the community they will listen

Option 1.

T1>T2orT3>T4

T0:Conscript/Penals.
T1:Core infantry Unit with PTRS purchase. Sniper. Scout car. (Rather it be a Zi5/6 that can upgun to an mg, while I'm dreaming.)
T2:Maxim, mortar, and ZiS
T3:T70 and SU-76, Katyusha
T4:T34/76, SU-85, Shock Troopers, and either global or individual upgunning for T34s and SUs.

This is more or less reminiscent of the original Wehrmacht, but I really feel that the current tier system hamstrings the shock value of at least half the soviet army.

This way fuel could be utilized in non-linear ways while still fielding units with some semblance of shock value and utility.

One thing that has bothered me from the start is the fact that the SVT rifles on the penals, I think penals need a redesign as a unit.

I said no, but I think call ons for all teams need a bit of a redesign so they don't become the focus of your "tech". The one big difference between the first company of heroes and this one is that you can't scout an opponents tech in this game due to the call on heavy meta. Even if you see a doctrinal specific unit like Shock Troops so many commanders have access to it that it doesn't inform you that you need to prep for an IS-2

I said no, but I think call ons for all teams need a bit of a redesign so they don't become the focus of your "tech". The one big difference between the first company of heroes and this one is that you can't scout an opponents tech in this game due to the call on heavy meta. Even if you see a doctrinal specific unit like Shock Troops so many commanders have access to it that it doesn't inform you that you need to prep for an IS-2

Well most of the competitive Soviet Doctrines have some sort of tank call-in, so it is best to prep nonetheless

I think an easy fix would be to add a global veterancy upgrade building ala the kampfkraft center from COH1. This allows soviet units to scale later in the gamr by having guaranteed vet units. Also, why not male the t34 85 an upgrade like the sherman 76 was in coh1? You'd start with a t34 but could buy a universal t34/85 upgrade.

Test - post will follow

I think an easy fix would be to add a global veterancy upgrade building ala the kampfkraft center from COH1. This allows soviet units to scale later in the gamr by having guaranteed vet units.

This design was flawed in the original Coh. I remember threads with the name "Wehrmacht vet - the cancer of Coh". So that´s not a good option. Also it would be silly to have vet 3 T-34/85s from the stock, making StuGs and Panzer IVs even weaker in comparison.

I don't think there is a problem with the way Soviets are designed. You may not like it but that's different story.
With my recent Soviet play I'd usually go t1/t2 then quick t3 and T-34, followed by a commander that have call ins.
If I go for a doctrine without call ins I'd go t4 so I can get SU-85.
Rest is execution.

Huh, you want to some redesign for Soviets from guys who can't even post ALL changes in patch notes?

I think tier 3 and tier 4 need to be looked at,
tier 3 should be the motorpool, halftrack, su-76 and t-70.
And tier 4 should have katuhsya and t-34/76 and su-85.
to make the soviet late game without doctrinal tanks more flexible.