Been playing for awhile and just starting to post but it seems that a great way to stop Volk/Maxim/Rifle/you name it spam is simply cap number of units that can be built at that type. Would that be difficult to code? If not it seems like a perfect way to for instance leave Olbersoldaten right where they are performance wise and simply cap them at 2 units to prevent super blob of long range annihilation. Same with maxims. You could actually make them stronger on damage and leave the crew count at 6 but simply prevent building more once say 4 is reached. Obviously there oeoole could get aroun that with re-crewing but it is a start.
With heavy tanks do what COH did with tiger, only can call in of there is none on field. I would do that for all heavy tanks doctrinal and non-doc. Or maybe allow a second but make it cost a lot more MP and fuel.
To me this avenue of capping units is much more desirable/to the point than methods such as pop cap increases and upkeep which can create new problems that make game no better off. Thoughts?
Easy spam removal without changing any unit stats
27 Oct 2014, 01:16 AM
#1
Posts: 503
27 Oct 2014, 01:24 AM
#2
Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7
generally hard caps like that are an extreme last resort, and from a design standpoint is a really bad fix.
27 Oct 2014, 01:26 AM
#3
Posts: 503
Hopefully my post makes sense. I feel like this game is fairly well balanced which is remarkable given how much variety in units there is to each faction. A lot of balance issues are result of people abusing certain units in numbers and blobs. Everyone talks about ways to Nerf/buff other units but to take maxims for example they are quite strong at suppressing already and have great survivability and extreme low teinforcement cost. This leads to spam due to weakness of core SU infantry. Rather than lowering squad size or making it weaker at suppressing units simply cap at 3 or 4. SU gets to keep a cheap and survivable and mobile fire base while not being able to get away with putting a maxim in every dreaming building and creating a defensive hedgehog that only multiple mortars can handle in early game.
This cap concept can apply in many areas and help fine tune balance at extremes without wreaking havoc on core gameplay.
This cap concept can apply in many areas and help fine tune balance at extremes without wreaking havoc on core gameplay.
27 Oct 2014, 01:34 AM
#4
Posts: 503
generally hard caps like that are an extreme last resort, and from a design standpoint is a really bad fix.
Agree it shouldn't be necessary but does the game really lose anything in accuracy or playability if we no longer see 8 maxim squads on the field for one army? Or super blobs of 1 SO and 6 fusiliers with G43 (it happened t me in team game and my infantry dropped so fast they couldn't even finish 1 clip) ?
The caps should be at extreme levels so as to allow flexibility in game play and keep players from being forced into buying units they don't want. My thought is simply that many unit performance/cost changes that need to be made in order to fix extreme problems will then result in units being underpowered when used in moderation.
27 Oct 2014, 01:45 AM
#5
Posts: 824
Not a good idea and this idea has been brought up before and shot down as bad design and overall worse for the game. Kills the fun of spamming units for casual games and puts hard limits on competitive players. Such a change would only be frustrating for both groups of this game.
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27 Oct 2014, 06:39 AM
#6
Posts: 63
The more realistic approach that Relic has done was coding a modifier that reduces the unit's effectiveness if they are in proximity to another unit. In the opposite way that zeal worked with Panzer Grenadier squads in vcoh, if Pioneers were in close range with each other they would receive a debuff.
I believe this happens in small ways in coh2, like an mg is more effective in suppressing a blob than single units, but I'm not sure
I believe this happens in small ways in coh2, like an mg is more effective in suppressing a blob than single units, but I'm not sure
27 Oct 2014, 06:46 AM
#7
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Another hard cap thread by another person who have no slightest idea on how certain armies work. Yay I guess?
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
27 Oct 2014, 07:41 AM
#8
Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7
Agree it shouldn't be necessary but does the game really lose anything in accuracy or playability if we no longer see 8 maxim squads on the field for one army? Or super blobs of 1 SO and 6 fusiliers with G43 (it happened t me in team game and my infantry dropped so fast they couldn't even finish 1 clip) ?
The caps should be at extreme levels so as to allow flexibility in game play and keep players from being forced into buying units they don't want. My thought is simply that many unit performance/cost changes that need to be made in order to fix extreme problems will then result in units being underpowered when used in moderation.
if theyre at extreme levels why have them in the first place. honestly if youre fighting a blob with one squad at a time youre going to lose. consolidate your forces and use better positioning and mechanics to destroy your enemy instead of getting picked apart.
27 Oct 2014, 07:47 AM
#9
Posts: 432
if theyre at extreme levels why have them in the first place. honestly if youre fighting a blob with one squad at a time youre going to lose. consolidate your forces and use better positioning and mechanics to destroy your enemy instead of getting picked apart.
I have all these 10% JagdTiger call-in bulletins and I refuse to let Relic dictate that I can't field 4 of these units at the same time.
27 Oct 2014, 07:58 AM
#10
Posts: 331
The easiest way of stopping stuff like maxim spam is not letting support units cap the map - simple.
27 Oct 2014, 08:14 AM
#11
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
The easiest way of stopping stuff like maxim spam is not letting support units cap the map while they are deployed and in firing position.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
27 Oct 2014, 08:33 AM
#12
Posts: 331
I don't agree, support weapons should not be able to cap full stop. Infantry can capture territory as they are mobile, they can dig in, they can fire and manoeuvre and support weapons cant. HMG's are massive and they can be moved but they move while its safe to do so, same for at guns, mortars ect - they all rely on infantry to screen for them.
If you stop these units from capping then a player that chooses to go 3-4 maxims will be severely punished with loss of map control - they can still win, given good positioning but they wont be taking the whole map instantly. Same for mg42 heavy builds, the player will suffer lack of capping as a consequence. its not a hard cap and its not insurmountable, but it would be situational and skill based.
27 Oct 2014, 09:20 AM
#13
Posts: 589
The easiest way of stopping stuff like maxim spam is not letting support units cap the map - simple.
this might help but I don't think it would totally stop maxim spam.
5 Nov 2014, 23:00 PM
#14
Posts: 331
this might help but I don't think it would totally stop maxim spam.
I guess in COH 2 it probably wouldn't matter as map control generally means f all - so you are probably right.
6 Nov 2014, 05:36 AM
#15
Posts: 32
I don't agree, support weapons should not be able to cap full stop. Infantry can capture territory as they are mobile, they can dig in, they can fire and manoeuvre and support weapons cant. HMG's are massive and they can be moved but they move while its safe to do so, same for at guns, mortars ect - they all rely on infantry to screen for them.
If you stop these units from capping then a player that chooses to go 3-4 maxims will be severely punished with loss of map control - they can still win, given good positioning but they wont be taking the whole map instantly. Same for mg42 heavy builds, the player will suffer lack of capping as a consequence. its not a hard cap and its not insurmountable, but it would be situational and skill based.
except the base infantry for soviet is bad and penals are basically cons when it really comes down to what they do, bring cons or penals or better yet both into a state that makes sense and maxim spam will reduce, because at the moment a maxim squad is basically cons with a gun that can supress and deals more damage than a rifle since they have the same cost.
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