Obersoldaten and stuff

Keep in mind that OKW starts with 40 fuel, while soviets do to, they will usually use it for molotovs and at nades.


So the maths are even more in favor of OKW here.

Combined arms are not meant to be easy to take out, that includes every faction. Any use of combined arms is hard to take out and requires, baiting, enemy mistakes and a portion of RNG.




Give shocks 5 men, Mosin rifles and price of 300. Allow a 100 munitions upgrade that grants them ppsh.
Give Panzergrens 3 Men, K98k, allow them a 100 munitions upgrade that gives them Stg44.




Ok, I've spent 917 hours(+about 100 hours in the alpha) into this game, compared to your 548. I know how resources work and what they are for.


Any unit with smoke can counter a single mg. Two cons squads can counter Axis HMGs. And how often I did the good old shock into HMG smoke, throw nade wipe.




Obers excel at their optimum range, thats the LMG design.
A Tip: 2 HMGs positioned away from each other will counter the Obersoldaten squad.
Obersoldaten can be countered with manpower only investments.
Maxim + any squad. Shock troops. Supported snipers. Mortars bleed endless manpower and require constant repositioning in order to prevent a wipe. Yesterdady I lost one Obersoldaten squad to two cons, because I was outplayed and made mistakes.
Paras with lmgs, riflemen with lmgs also run into any hmg and wipe it. They moreover can take on obersoldaten.
Yes they require munition investment, but yet again that's the price they have to pay for the fact that they superior to any axis standard infantry.
You all cry for the fact that the can't be beaten by a single squad of whatever.

Balance will be achieved for you if a single riflemen or con squad can chase off a Obersoldaten squad.


Obers are hard countered by vehicles, that includes the cheapest fuel investments you have. Soft counters exist, like for every other units by combined infantry arms.

OK, first of all, I don't know why you are getting offended by me explaining resources. I am merely giving a quick explanation of the important aspects of the game so that anyone who jumps into the thread can understand what I am speaking about.

Your entire statement about smoke completely overlooks the fact that I explicitly stated, in the section you quoted nonetheless, that the exception to the rules I am explaining is the usage of munitions to change the advantage of a battle one way or another. For example. Shocks always beat volks at close range, EXCEPT if volks use a grenade to wipe several models.

Why do I need 2 infantry hardcounters to defeat an infantry squad? It goes completely against game design and the role of an MG, especially the role of the MAXIM which is meant to give large suppression vs. a single unit. 2 maxims needed to counter a single ober unit makes absolutely no sense to me.

The statement you made about how paras need a manpower investment to go toe-to-toe with obers contradicts the very statement you are making about obers not needing a muni cost. You state that the muni cost (120 mu) is the "price they pay for the fact that they superior to any axis standard infantry." In which case why can obers get away with a straight manpower cost yet stay superior to any allied standard infantry? This is completely discounting the fact that 1 munition = 1.5 manpower, which would rate paras + lmgs at (336 + 120*1.5 =) 516 manpower vs. obers 400 manpower.

Every single manpower investment you mention is FAR above 400 manpower, a "supported" sniper is minimum 240mp + 360mp, which is far above the 400mp required for a single unit of obers, not to mention that obers can still easily beat a single sniper at near max snipe-range with the lmg.

The reason I want the obersoldatan changed is because they can directly counter their own counters easily. An MG stands no chance against a squad that does such insanely high single target firepower that they lose the gunner before he has a chance to grab the damn trigger. I am not complaining that they cannot be countered by a "single squad of whatever," I am merely stating that obers can counter their own hardcounter just as hard.

Finally, I am sorry that you feel that the forum is full of people who want to nerf everything you standfor to oblivion. It is time to step into the light. You can look at my playercard, I play all the factions, and infact PREFER OKW when I can. Yet for some reason, I want to change obers. Is it too much to ask that I may actually like a balanced game, where I can play all the factions and not feel like I am fighting an uphill battle?

Edit: Shit, I forgot to respond to your last point. Obers in fact do enough damage to kill most M3s and WC51s and un-upgraded M20s straight up, so you need either a munitions investment or a hefty fuel investment to counter them. Cheapest vehicle being the M8 greyhound I believe at 40 fu.

On side note, if you want shocks to spawn with rifles like they used to and require an upgrade I honestly wouldn't complain. Who doesnt want a soviet squad with cheap (relatively) callin, 1.2 armor, and actual long range damage!

Right oh, My fellow bear makes some valid points. Just to elaborate a little more:

There should Never be a unit that invalidates whole swaths. Stating you HAVE to use a tank to even push back an infantry unit is rediculous. What happens when an AT gun is near by? do you just let the two units take the whole side? you cannot possibly remove their threat cost effectively with infantry, and yet needing more tanks just to deal with them is also a ridiculous thing to expect. The reason it is not balanced is because it Nullifies infantry play after they come out unless you have an army of Soviet snipers to force them to retreat everywhere they go.

Just think about how silly it sounds. Oh 10 minutes in the game I have to have an army of tanks or quit the flank wherever the Obers are just because they exist and I'll just loose a huge amount trying to get rid of them all the while the OKW player uses the rest of his army to do other things.

Plus in the late game if you see any vet 3+ obers you are pretty much fucked unless you have 0 supply in infantry (haha good luck). That would be like if a player had a heavy tank at 10 minutes vs your medium tank for 20 extra fuel. Clearly not balanced

Being honest this thread is a whine and that's it. Probably the Obers need a slight nerf to their long range DPS but all of the suggestions will send this unit to the oblivion. Please do remember that this unit is very heavy on manpower and it takes ages to reinforce those guys. Btw QuennRatchet I remember when I played against you in 1 vs 1 and you played OKW. I easily and without really an effort destroyed you with Soviets using like conscripts and 2 shocks (And I'm like an average or even BAD player), not to mention you already had the apparently allmighty t4 as the OKW. So OKW is still OP as hell or do you need to L2P?

Okw vet bonuses need to be re-evaluated overall, some of the received accuracy is too strong. That said, I'm ok with the squad itself being difficult to kill. I'm not ok with it having the dps to defy the cover system. Time after time I have lost engagements with basic infantry vs obers, with me having the heavy cover advantage. This is simply due to the high dps of the lmg34 and even worse the doctrinal infrared stg44.

So, my problem is really more with the lmg34 rather than the actual ober squad. Any squad that picks the gun up, becomes extremely difficult to kill and can ignore cover for the most part. I want to see 2 things:



For as long as the squad has amazing received accuracy and received accuracy bonuses, it's value should remain in the 400mp area. Even without the lmg, they are a tough squad.

Being honest this thread is a whine and that's it. Probably the Obers need a slight nerf to their long range DPS but all of the suggestions will send this unit to the oblivion. Please do remember that this unit is very heavy on manpower

Hmmmkay. Please, tell me another elite infantry unit, doctrinal or otherwise that's a lot cheaper than Obers.

Ok, now that you've done that, please tell me which, if any, of those units you thought of (cheaper ones, and similar priced), that can consistently stand up to Obers (by consistently, I mean not situational).

Hmmmkay. Please, tell me another elite infantry unit, doctrinal or otherwise that's a lot cheaper than Obers.

Ok, now that you've done that, please tell me which, if any, of those units you thought of (cheaper ones, and similar priced), that can consistently stand up to Obers (by consistently, I mean not situational).

I of course was refering to the reinforcement cost of this unit, not the price itself but still 400mp is quite hefty.

The only thing that should be changed is that they get the LMG34 for free. have you seen how hard it is to fight that if you drop and give the opponent one, its dumb.
Buff their rifles, slightly nerf lmg34 and give it an upgrade cost of ~60

Okw vet bonuses need to be re-evaluated overall, some of the received accuracy is too strong.

IMO they could just get rid of the 2 extra vet levels. It doesn't really make sense for volksgrenadiers getting vet 5 and being superior basically compared to any allied unit. Even with the 2 vet levels removed, OKW units would still be superior either in terms of versatility or just pure strength.

I'm fine with Obers being strong because they are purely anti-infantry, but in their current state and especially with the extra vet bonuses they are overperforming.

I of course was refering to the reinforcement cost of this unit, not the price itself but still 400mp is quite hefty.

Ha ok, I'll adjust my question to: Which elite infantry in the game has a far cheaper reinforcement cost from say 1 model to full health, than the Obers. All my previous questions still apply.

The only thing that should be changed is that they get the LMG34 for free. have you seen how hard it is to fight that if you drop and give the opponent one, its dumb.
Buff their rifles, slightly nerf lmg34 and give it an upgrade cost of ~60

Sarantini, 60? Really? It has double the dps of an lmg42...

I of course was refering to the reinforcement cost of this unit, not the price itself but still 400mp is quite hefty.

Reinforcing full shock squad=150mp.
Reinforcing full ober squad=150mp.

There is nothing extraordinarily expensive about them when it comes to reinforce costs relative to their price.

Sarantini, 60? Really? It has double the dps of an lmg42...

Ok 90 so it matches the upgrade cost of the ir stg.
I just said 60 so i wouldnt get picked apart for forgetting the okw resource bla bla. I guess the opposite happened

Ha ok, I'll adjust my question to: Which elite infantry in the game has a far cheaper reinforcement cost from say 1 model to full health, than the Obers. All my previous questions still apply.

Sure I will now sacrifice like next half an hour to find all the numbers. If you are so adamant that Obers are cheap please tell me which unit from the other side of the fence is more expensive. Also please note that I have specifically noted in my first post that they MAY need a slight nerf in long range DPS.

I do not have any trouble fighting them when I play Soviets unless they are spammed but then I know i effed up somewhere earlier to let the other guy spamm this unit.

Excuse me for being the better player. Im sorry that u have to make up bullshit to sound relevant.

And im not joking. i DID defeat u twice in a row

I have no recollection of such an event as losing to you twice in a row. Was it 1 vs 1? Anyways I do remember playing against you as Soviets vs OKW and that is it. Excuse me for not being an aggressive a-hole

Obersoldaten would'nt be so bad if the soviets didn't have such an awful faction design, coupled with the reliance on commanders. If the faction it self was fixed, then maybe JUST maybe, ober soldaten in there current form MIGHT be ok, but as it stands they're not. They shred even shocktroops to pieces and soviet tanks can't even get close because they get destimated by volks and reketens. Also I don't know why I'm getting called a soviet fanboy, yes they are my favorite faction ,but I was top one hundred with both ost and okw at one point and I had a few of my axis games casted, alot of you can't say the same because you never play allies.

I have no recollection of such an event as losing to you twice in a row. Was it 1 vs 1? Anyways I do remember playing against you as Soviets vs OKW and that is it. Excuse me for not being an aggressive a-hole

Dude i prefer okw an wehr over shit sov desing and usf late game. But i can recognize an OP unit.

Obers are soo overpowered that they literally negate infantry combat. the fact that some here suggest the u need vehicles to counter infantry is INSANE. There should always be an option to use infantry to counter infantry. it is possible to counter obers. but, the amount of effort needed is ridiculous.

Its way to ez for me to rack up 70+ kills with an ober squad.

Obers are op, its FACT end OF DISCUSSION.