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ISU-152 Overnerfed

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eebies
25 Oct 2014, 04:22 AM
#21
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jump backJump back to quoted post25 Oct 2014, 02:26 AMVaz
If anything is OP about the ISU it's the giant sight range range ability, without that it wouldn't be 1 shoting squads normally in the fog.


This is really the crux of the issue. It's not about Axis players frustrated that their head on PGren or Volks attacks are leading to them being wiped out, it's about the fact that a PGren or Volks squad can be minding their own business far out of normal sight range, and in a split second they're just suddenly gone. At that point it's not about bad micro, or bad awareness, it's just that a heavy assault gun with ridiculous sight range happened to spot them and RNG smashed their squad into the dirt.
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Vaz
25 Oct 2014, 04:37 AM
#22
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remove the sighting ability then. Remove it from all of the heavies. I don't know if the jagd has it, but remove from the elephant too. It already has spotting scopes. Alternatively I think I would support a marder style lockdown to all these tanks with range above 60(not including su-76, but we could :foreveralone: ). Being able to remove the lockdown has a 5-10 second cooldown. If you have good support, it's no problem. If your cheesing, you might get pwned.
29 Jul 2014, 12:16 PM by siuking666:
T34/76 is NOT a joke on my hands; Maybe on your hands you make it suck shit? but on me, No. I can kill a stug with a little micro, go toe to toe with a Panzer 4. Is it a joke? LOL T34/85 is apparently a very good tank. But no one says it "one hit wipe" or elefant penetration; up to a point i think this little medium tank just have too much health and too much firepower with that fuel cost.
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Jadame!
25 Oct 2014, 04:56 AM
#23
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Posts: 1122

If Relic want to left ISU manual targeting they should significantly buff turn rate and firing animation because its almost impossible to hit moving targets with ISU right now.

Meanwhile JT hits moving tanks pretty easily.
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Mr. Someguy
25 Oct 2014, 04:57 AM
#24
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jump backJump back to quoted post25 Oct 2014, 04:37 AMVaz
remove the sighting ability then. Remove it from all of the heavies. I don't know if the jagd has it, but remove from the elephant too. It already has spotting scopes.


Proposal to nerf the Elefant? You don't happen to work at Relic, do you? :P

Nerf the Elefant goes well with nerf the M2 HMG, nerf the T-34/76, and nerf the Panzer IV Ausf. J.
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2016, 01:09 AMluvnest
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII

> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
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NinjaWJ
25 Oct 2014, 05:08 AM
#25
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Posts: 2070

IMO it is not the range issue. You already have long range units like Jackson and SU85 that aren't really OP. The ISU just squad wipes a lot. It is a tough balancing act. THe ISU is basically a gigantic howitzer on treads. Some AOE adjustments could make it work, but i do not agree with the current beta change.
jump backJump back to quoted post31 Mar 2015, 15:19 PMAlexzandvar
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
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Schewi
25 Oct 2014, 05:32 AM
#26
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Posts: 175

I cannot comment on if it is useless or not, but if it is - I love it!

The idea of super ranged heavies destroys a part of the game imo. Those units are too easy to use for their outcome. Sitting in a different part of the map and shoot everything seems not right
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Vaz
25 Oct 2014, 05:35 AM
#27
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Posts: 1158

AOE changes would actually work. The Far damage can be reduced such that fringe hits won't fully kill infantry.
29 Jul 2014, 12:16 PM by siuking666:
T34/76 is NOT a joke on my hands; Maybe on your hands you make it suck shit? but on me, No. I can kill a stug with a little micro, go toe to toe with a Panzer 4. Is it a joke? LOL T34/85 is apparently a very good tank. But no one says it "one hit wipe" or elefant penetration; up to a point i think this little medium tank just have too much health and too much firepower with that fuel cost.
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MarcoRossolini
25 Oct 2014, 05:56 AM
#28
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Posts: 1042

Would it be better if the ISU functioned as an artillery piece that you lock onto an area or target? (similar to the B-4) So you, for example, give it a range of 100 and a barrage thing, and then you say have a 50 range direct fire which locks onto the target and blazes away until out of sight or destroyed and then has say, a 7 second cooldown until you can target it again.
This would prevent you just parking an ISU on the otherside of the map and leaving it to fire and gives it some interesting micro options and prevents as much arbitrary shooting so that the player has to target it with their own micro. Perhaps a 2 second wind up prior to the first shot and the normal reload after that. I'd recommend though that given the inflexible nature of the system at some points, the 152mm should be heavily buffed vs tanks...
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NinjaWJ
25 Oct 2014, 06:58 AM
#29
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jump backJump back to quoted post25 Oct 2014, 05:56 AMMarcoRossolini
Would it be better if the ISU functioned as an artillery piece that you lock onto an area or target? (similar to the B-4) So you, for example, give it a range of 100 and a barrage thing, and then you say have a 50 range direct fire which locks onto the target and blazes away until out of sight or destroyed and then has say, a 7 second cooldown until you can target it again.
This would prevent you just parking an ISU on the otherside of the map and leaving it to fire and gives it some interesting micro options and prevents as much arbitrary shooting so that the player has to target it with their own micro. Perhaps a 2 second wind up prior to the first shot and the normal reload after that. I'd recommend though that given the inflexible nature of the system at some points, the 152mm should be heavily buffed vs tanks...



Interesting change. I would definitely be down to try this out
jump backJump back to quoted post31 Mar 2015, 15:19 PMAlexzandvar
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
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VIPUKS
25 Oct 2014, 07:17 AM
#30
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They could do automatical fairing mode at 55 range and manual from 56 to 70
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UGBEAR
25 Oct 2014, 08:06 AM
#31
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jump backJump back to quoted post25 Oct 2014, 07:17 AMVIPUKS
They could do automatical fairing mode at 55 range and manual from 56 to 70


Keep auto-attack within a 55 range, and adding a barrage ability like zis-3 and Su-76M at a range of 70.

JT need to keep its auto-attack within a range of 55 as well, keep the barrage(which shoot through wall) at the range of 70.


Current huge nerf to these units are typical relic's overdo. It is broken before nerf, and no need to make it completely waste of resources after nerf.
jump backJump back to quoted post8 Nov 2015, 18:05 PMd0ggY
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think


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MarcoRossolini
25 Oct 2014, 08:16 AM
#32
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Posts: 1042

Hmm... since an ISU is an assault cannon, how about giving it an absurdly powerful but limited ranged normal attack of about 20 and then a barrage of 70 or so with the same ML-20 that the static arty has...
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MoerserKarL
25 Oct 2014, 08:24 AM
#33
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I've watched last night Luvnest stream and he pointed out (hopefully Im right) that this unit needs now a lot of attention/micro and clicks
You can better use them in Teamgames as in 1vs1.
thanks relic that they nerfed both JT and ISU, because they are both gamebreaker.
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Sierra
25 Oct 2014, 08:29 AM
#34
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Posts: 432

No such thing as overnerfed with that god damned overpowered monstrosity. I'll be happy if it can only shoot soap-bubbles at troops.

There is no amount of nerfed into the ground for that fucking thing that wouldn't be justified.
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Vaz
25 Oct 2014, 08:39 AM
#35
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I like the different attacks at different ranges idea, but JT needs to stop shooting through everything. The guy people try to lean on in reality shot through a house, not a boulder or a hill. One of this games main features is true sight and JT shooting through objects is in direct violation of true sight principles. That's my way of saying it's not good for gameplay either. I would really like to hear Relics position on this, if they truly intend for it to do this or if it's a bug.
29 Jul 2014, 12:16 PM by siuking666:
T34/76 is NOT a joke on my hands; Maybe on your hands you make it suck shit? but on me, No. I can kill a stug with a little micro, go toe to toe with a Panzer 4. Is it a joke? LOL T34/85 is apparently a very good tank. But no one says it "one hit wipe" or elefant penetration; up to a point i think this little medium tank just have too much health and too much firepower with that fuel cost.
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comm_ash
25 Oct 2014, 08:40 AM
#36
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jump backJump back to quoted post25 Oct 2014, 08:29 AMSierra
No such thing as overnerfed with that god damned overpowered monstrosity. I'll be happy if it can only shoot soap-bubbles at troops.

There is no amount of nerfed into the ground for that fucking thing that wouldn't be justified.


Yeah, it sucks that there is a unit that can one-shot light vehicles while firing through walls, while also having the best frontal armor, the ability to move itself, and range.

No, wait....

There are plenty of imba units in the game, but I would suggest playing the beta changes themselves and not throwing out some biased and not very-well founded statements.

As a player who plays all the armies, and prefers OKW, I find that the ISU is actually not that hard to kill, especially with blitz and smoke. If you want the units you describe as so powerful, go ahead and play soviets! I am sure you will love the faction design!


On topic though, I find the new ISU to be fun, it eats up micro sure, but it really feels like a fun mini-game to micro it. The dopamine releases are great!
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Sierra
25 Oct 2014, 08:45 AM
#37
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Posts: 432

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Oct 2014, 08:40 AMcomm_ash


Yeah, it sucks that there is a unit that can one-shot light vehicles while firing through walls, while also having the best frontal armor, the ability to move itself, and range.

No, wait....

There are plenty of imba units in the game, but I would suggest playing the beta changes themselves and not throwing out some biased and not very-well founded statements.

As a player who plays all the armies, and prefers OKW, I find that the ISU is actually not that hard to kill, especially with blitz and smoke. If you want the units you describe as so powerful, go ahead and play soviets! I am sure you will love the faction design!


On topic though, I find the new ISU to be fun, it eats up micro sure, but it really feels like a fun mini-game to micro it. The dopamine releases are great!



Light vehicles have paper for armor, that's what is implied in LIGHT ARMOR!

Nothing the Germans have even really comes close to instantly wiping infantry squads! (save for the Stuka zu Fuss, and that's only if you managed to hit the same squad with 2x or 3x rockets from the barrage!)


I can't comment on the Beta since I haven't played it, but I am playing live, have been for a very long time, and it's just SHIT!.
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Kronosaur0s
25 Oct 2014, 08:50 AM
#38
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Posts: 1701

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Oct 2014, 02:11 AMvoltardark


Well please tell me then. if i can learn more i'll be happy.


L2Focused sight. Only SU85/Elefant/ISU has it, so they can spot for themselves. If you keep saying no...then..I dont know what your problem is XDD
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comm_ash
25 Oct 2014, 08:58 AM
#39
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jump backJump back to quoted post25 Oct 2014, 08:45 AMSierra



Light vehicles have paper for armor, that's what is implied in LIGHT ARMOR!

Nothing the Germans have even really comes close to instantly wiping infantry squads! (save for the Stuka zu Fuss, and that's only if you managed to hit the same squad with 2x or 3x rockets from the barrage!)


I can't comment on the Beta since I haven't played it, but I am playing live, have been for a very long time, and it's just SHIT!.


Infantry squads have paper for armor, that's what is implied in INFANTRY!

^Not a real argument, but whatever.

THe germans have plenty of options for wiping infantry. In fact, the germans have 3 nondoctrinal units to do so. The Brummbar has the exact same AOE value as the ISU, and it has a vet artillery strike. Then there is the Panzerwerfer, which fires 12 rockets at a single position from far range, and is usually either a wipe or heavy damage to any infantry in the area. Finally, there is the Sturmtiger, which can instawipe very large concentrations, shoot through buildings, and even cripple/ instagib vehicles. Germans have plenty of options, they just usually don't bother to use them in most games because they prefer to use Tigers.

EDIT: sorry, forgot to respond to everything: The Stuka can wipe squads with a single rocket, which is not hard to hit because it is deadly accurate.
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faus515
25 Oct 2014, 09:01 AM
#40
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usless (nerfing): t70(fire damage before new faction cooming and speed) / su-76(sucked since) / t34-76(fuel up - nerf ram) /su-85 many nerfing patching (speed and distance view) / t35-85(sucked when germans have bufed panters armor + sucked without marking) isu (nerf beta patch) / is-2 (accuracy fire funny damage for 122 mm gun)/ scout car nerfed and up fule coast - whats next ? ONLY M3 was buffed
infantry: shoks / guards - what next
soooooooo soviet OP:lolol:
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