Let me clear up some things about Relic and AA

I'm curious actually Napalm, did you meet Stefan Haines?

Relic will deserve respect again when they will do their job professionally instead of basing on "our feels for people", the bug fixes that are coming should have been out a week after the game came out, not an year later.

That said, CoH2 is absolutely subpar compared to any other product from relic (and I've been playing them all since HW2), between DLCs,P2W, half-assed campaigns, and now a single player campaign that should have come out with WFA and priced at 30€, not only that, but recently relic (and this isn't a marketing decision or move from high-ups so the relic team is entirely to blame) has patched DoW2 to work with battleservers, creating a myriad of non-balance related but gamebreaking bugs that more than a month after haven't been fixed, and still nobody asked them to implement battleservers for that game.

I hope for the best for relic and their games as I love them, but recently they have only been disappointing.

Ipkai I understand your frustration but remember its tricky to have a conversation with angry customers as an employee. Chances are no matter what they say things will only eskolate and it all becomes a huge PR disaster. Top management in companies are of a older generation usually and is out of touch with eSport and importance of gaming communities.

Then they don't belong in that position. At the end of the day they are after our money and quite frankly I am not going to give them any more in the future.

That is your choice but you will be suprised if you think any other Developer is any different. Back to the topic of AA; I think 40€ can be justified if the singelplayer is mindblowingly awesome and it included multiplayer but it doesn't. If a new player buys AA im sure they will assume they can play multiplayer with this expensive "standalone" product but they can't, they probably gonna be pissed off and not buy more coh2 products. They are not gonna get much new players into coh2 with this.

Back to the topic of AA; I think 40€ can be justified if the singelplayer is mindblowingly awesome and it included multiplayer but it doesn't. If a new player buys AA im sure they will assume they can play multiplayer with this expensive "standalone" product but they can't, they probably gonna be pissed off and not buy more coh2 products. They are not gonna get much new players into coh2 with this.

That is true only if we assume that this new player is a complete and utter idiot who throws money first and check what he got later.

Description of AA is rather clear and you* can't really have any delusions about the content delivered, unless, as I've said, you're* a helpless idiot.

If you* are spending money based on the assumptions instead of product description, then you* are a perfect customer, wealthy enough to spend that kind of money and willing to do so blindly.


*general customer

It's ironic how Relic wants us to trust them buying a game on which we don't have any info besides that it's about USF's singleplayer missions and nothing else.
As if anyone would buy a car knowing only that it has 4 tires and a couple of doors. Get rid of that stupid NDA and show your customers what are they buying before asking for money.

Ardennes Assault's preorder currently is just a gamble. An expensive one. And we have precedent about what happens when you trust Relic and preorder their games.

Sorry Napalm, I agree with almost every post you write, but in this one seems that you're trying to appeal to our feelings in order to made us buy AA.
I don't believe in feelings to do business. Just show how good is your product and let its quality talk.

I agree with you on that point, even though i preordered a long time ago they should have made it like paradox with theor games. Every now and then they should have made a blog where they tell us a part of the upcoming expansion!
But still, i feel sometimes the community can be unfair, sometimes they are blaming relic for things that arent their fault and thus dragging their names in the dirt!
Good post Papabear

I always supported Relic with buying DLC, but singleplayers isn't my cup of tea, and I'm not giving 40 belougas for just having it.
The moment a new skinpackage / commander comes out, they can count on me.

I feel that some clarity is in order. I'm not asking the community to forget all about the past crap Relic has done because I got to see some new and shiny I'm not allowed to talk about. I still have many outstanding things I need to talk to them about, maybe a return visit some day? I also bought the CE of the game, how do you think I feel about that?

As per folks questioning my independence check out my posting history. It speaks for itself. This is a fine example of how far I'm willing to go to get the community concerns heard. Take those tin foil hats off. The Napalm you all knew before meeting up with Relic is still very alive and well. I just have a new perspective on things.

There are many way you and I can support Relic. Re-read what I asked of the community. Consider pre-ordering AA. I was merely asking the community not to boy-cot the product without giving it some thought. Seeing what I have seen and taking an educated guess that parts of AA are going to end up in MP at some point in time I felt comfortable making the $40 payment.

If there is something this thread has brought out it is that Relic has a lot of relationship mending to do.

If AA was of superb quaity and replayability like Rome Total War or something, then it might b justified. However, many details are probably locked behind an NDA, so players are rightly skeptical.

I understand where you are coming from Napalm, but it is hard for some of us to cease or cynical behavior and attitude.

That is true only if we assume that this new player is a complete and utter idiot who throws money first and check what he got later.

Description of AA is rather clear and you* can't really have any delusions about the content delivered, unless, as I've said, you're* a helpless idiot.

If you* are spending money based on the assumptions instead of product description, then you* are a perfect customer, wealthy enough to spend that kind of money and willing to do so blindly.


*general customer

If you haven't noticed most people don't read the entire description before buying, most purchases are impulse purchase. If you want only smart, well educated, analyzing and careful persons buying your game you ain't gonna have a large playerbase. The vast majority will assume certain things at a certain pricepoint, just look at collectors edition.

I see people from UK, Merica and other "rich" countries saying that 40 euros/dollars is too much, so i ask you, what people from "poor" countries think about it

nice job Relic. its big success


I hope new community manager Cynthia will bring an order to this chaos if mens can't

If you haven't noticed most people don't read the entire description before buying, most purchases are impulse purchase. If you want only smart, well educated, analyzing and careful persons buying your game you ain't gonna have a large playerbase. The vast majority will assume certain things at a certain pricepoint, just look at collectors edition.

And that is why there is so many shitty games out there.

But its still stupid customers fault.
If people weren't that stupid, we wouldn't see so many bad or overpriced titles.

You don't need to be smart, well educated, analyzing and careful.
You simply don't need to be stupid.

Apple products are best example of exploiting peoples stupidity.

I like Relic and I do think they're putting effort into this game, but to me 43$ (canada) is simply not worth a single-player campaign. I gladly would pay that for an xpac containing WFA + AA, and even a little more besides, but as a stand-alone 30$ is the absolute maximum I would even pay for one campaign, regardless of how good it is. As it stands if you want WFA and AA separately it costs you more than the full CoH2 game cost you at release. That's not a very good pricing policy. WFA was worth 24$. AA is not worth 43$. Simple as that to me.

Plus, it's an extremely busy week for games. WoW xpac, Far Cry 4, Dragon Age Inquisition among others all release November 18 or near it. I'm gonna buy the last two, and wait on a price drop for AA.

i ve been Relic fanboy since dawn of war 1 and do not really like how many people only tend to see bad things. coh2 made it to my absolute favourite game, because it has improved so many things of previous titles:

Relic did a fine job reshaping sniper mechanics, ressource system and artillery mechanics: snipers cant be camo-ed in mid of road, are slower and more expensive, new ressource system brings a more frontline-based gameplay and alows more comebacks while neglecting mircroing-orgies, arty isnt that strong anymore much more vulnerable but mobile and can fire faster which gives it a support role and not a game-depending role.

it seems to me they really make a lot of mind work to improve our game experience. it's just not that easy with such a complex structure like a a video game project of this size, regarding programming and game-principle issues, to run everything perfectly right from the start

on top of that, it's just the enourmous effort and love they put in this game to create an unique, simply breathtaking atmosphere. For example, i zoomed in to a sturmtiger moving with broken chains. I ve never the awesome squeaky noises the engine did in that case. When i play this game, i can dive into an action packed battlefield atmosphere no other game i know can do in such a manner. preparing an assault with katyuschas, assemble infantry and driving onto enemy positions with a bunch of t34 and cons while explosions fill your screen and cannons roaring all over the place

i for myself will keep on enjoying this game, not letting little things prevent me from doing that.

And i'm sure AA will be a great campaign, maybe like the one from DoW Winter assault whic i personally enjoyed very much. I'm more interested in multiplayer currentyl but AA can also turn out to be a nice step in for people who aren't familiar with the CoH series yet.

...Back to the topic of AA; I think 40€ can be justified if the singelplayer is mindblowingly awesome and it included multiplayer but it doesn't. If a new player buys AA im sure they will assume they can play multiplayer with this expensive "standalone" product but they can't, they probably gonna be pissed off and not buy more coh2 products. They are not gonna get much new players into coh2 with this.

well, that is probably the feelings for you and the minority of coh2 community here who are interested primarily or only in multiplayer.

whether AA's $40 price is justifiable depends on individuals and frankly to me, who like campaigns, $40 seems to be justifiable.

Because in spite of the bugs and balance, the game is still the best game in the world.

+1

I have never taken a game more seriously, and I've never experienced a community or company that dedicated so much effort and close attention into to one small objective, the betterment of Company of Heroes 2.

I see people from UK, Merica and other "rich" countries saying that 40 euros/dollars is too much, so i ask you, what people from "poor" countries think about it

For me it is like 100 Euros (living in Greece at the moment is not a field trip).

i ve been Relic fanboy since dawn of war 1 and do not really like how many people only tend to see bad things. coh2 made it to my absolute favourite game, because it has improved so many things of previous titles:

Relic did a fine job reshaping sniper mechanics, ressource system and artillery mechanics: snipers cant be camo-ed in mid of road, are slower and more expensive, new ressource system brings a more frontline-based gameplay and alows more comebacks while neglecting mircroing-orgies, arty isnt that strong anymore much more vulnerable but mobile and can fire faster which gives it a support role and not a game-depending role.

it seems to me they really make a lot of mind work to improve our game experience. it's just not that easy with such a complex structure like a a video game project of this size, regarding programming and game-principle issues, to run everything perfectly right from the start

on top of that, it's just the enourmous effort and love they put in this game to create an unique, simply breathtaking atmosphere. For example, i zoomed in to a sturmtiger moving with broken chains. I ve never the awesome squeaky noises the engine did in that case. When i play this game, i can dive into an action packed battlefield atmosphere no other game i know can do in such a manner. preparing an assault with katyuschas, assemble infantry and driving onto enemy positions with a bunch of t34 and cons while explosions fill your screen and cannons roaring all over the place

i for myself will keep on enjoying this game, not letting little things prevent me from doing that.

And i'm sure AA will be a great campaign, maybe like the one from DoW Winter assault whic i personally enjoyed very much. I'm more interested in multiplayer currentyl but AA can also turn out to be a nice step in for people who aren't familiar with the CoH series yet.

+1 but the price of AA is still to high.