Is Coh2 ready for E-Sports?Post-oktober Betapatch discussion

a lot of good points made. from the problems ppl have pointed out, it looks as though at least two more big patches are needed. of course only if you exclude fixing the map part. relic seems to be completely ignoring perfectly fine community maps and keeps pushing awful official maps.

No, from the start of Company of Heroes is not suited for eSports game. Mode 1 on 1 is boring and not interesting. This game is fun to play with friends after work.

the only death crit I don't like is main gun destroyed. If they replaced this with immobilized I think the system would be fine.

the only death crit I don't like is main gun destroyed. If they replaced this with immobilized I think the system would be fine.

Never forget....

No, from the start of Company of Heroes is not suited for eSports game. Mode 1 on 1 is boring and not interesting. This game is fun to play with friends after work.

Fun is merely opinion, although I will say that whenever people play for money fun usually takes a hit over winning. This is true of all other E-sports and regular sports in general.

*Relic announces esports*
Community : "LOL COH2 CANNOT INTO ESPORTS FIX BUGS FIRST SKRUBS"
Relic : "k" *releases a massive bugfix patch 1 month later*

It's still a long way before the game would be ready for E-sports...less bugs are just a small part of it.

Death crits, abandons, 1 shot'd squads, immobilize/engine destroy etc are bad RNG and are extremely detrimental to legitimate competitive play.

That is what I mean with that kinda RNG doesnt go hand in hand with competition.
Gamebreaking RNG isn't good, point final.

I dont get you guys (about the RNG). Does everything have to be black and white? Imo no, that gives the game the salt and pepper. Otherwise it would be boring.
Even in real live there is RNG, for example in the King of Sports "Football" (Soccer for the muricans ) that's why it is the king of Sports. I don't want that COH2 turns in to SC or Lol or Dota.
Of curse they can fix some things to make it better for Esports but not to much. I agree that the maps should be better for example and many other things.
Hey, FIFA is a ESport and there is also RNG.

Since when is the winner (of anything in this world) the best one??? Since never.
Was Greece the best team at the Euro 2004? No!!!! We won it anyway, because of RNG.
Was Chelsea the best Team in the champions league in 2012? No again.
But i say this, if you are the best one, 90% of the time you will win.

Ok, don't hang me because i have a different opinion

Basically, 2 more huge patches that are similar to this one and we should be gud.
That is........if Relic follows a good pattern.

There is RNG and then there is RNG.

A good commander should be able to adapt around battlefield setbacks. But some things do have a huge impact on how the game turns out. Squad wipes have such an enormous impact. Losing the first four riflemen sets you back 28 manpower apiece, losing the fifth one sets you back 168 manpower and all the veterancy. Sometimes losing the fifth guy hinges on a few rifle shot rolls. However, every player can skill their way around this by retreating in a timely manner or staying in cover when faced with tanks. Or, enemies can cut off a retreat path with sturmpios and get rewarded etc. The point is, RNG alone cannot screw you over - skills, micro and battlefield awareness will play a role.

However, certain things *COUGH old ISU* ignore this "RNG alone cannot screw you over" rule. Single-shot wiping a single vet5 squad is a game-turner event, but one that comes with no warning, nothing your skill or micro can do about it.

The correct way to go about this is not to remove RNG completely but to design the game so that the RNG deviations operate within reasonable limits, and remove bullshit unfairness from the game.

For example, if abandoned tanks also got the immobilized critical this would go a long way to removing the unfairness of a single dice roll (Amis repair critical is a problem etc. - just putting forth an example).

Also Crawler, this makes no sense at all.

COH2 needs tweaking, but that just doesnt make any sense.

it does... the decisions made early on during production, the very core of the game is based on "casual" play. even if you did make an f1 car out of your lawnmower, it's still a lawnmower at heart.

examples for those have been given, one of the biggest factors imho is the commander system. a lot of things that ppl do complain about could be fixed with differing degrees of difficulty (RNG, balance, maps, unit types etc.). but if they do get changed, but then it would not be the game it was anymore (not saying that would be a bad thing, but considering how relic has handled the game up until now this is something i'd rule out as an option).

and offtopic at inverse:
LoL has only very little RNG, mainly in the form of critical strikes (there's also a few champion abilities with RNG, or at least there were, and more or less randomness when fighting nashor in that he uses his abilties more or less randomly on random champs in range, but riot has been trying to remove most RNG like things and also most global buffs)

CoH2 would be ready for esports if Relic finally focused all his manpower on balance and changed some game mechanic like call-ins, doctrines, commanders

Engine destroyed and immobilization are fine if the tank is close to death. Even then those should only occur from attacks that the vehicle would have survived anyway, not as an alternative to being blown up. Refer to video I posted above, not esports material. Anyone that says you should "adapt" to that shit happening and you should still be able to win if you are better, you're fucking wrong and you aren't a high level competitive player, period.

What Ciez says, specially 1 shotting squads, but with some regards upon RNG.

RNG: i think that there are some things which would be better to put some limits on, not just eliminate them.

Heavy engine damage: only ocurring with things such as mines or ram (from behind) on little chance. Snares may only have a chance of getting it when there is light engine damage involve already.

Abandoned vehicles: maybe should have some crit by default, such as light, heavy or inmobilize.

Dead crits (light/heavy/main gun): i think that OVERKILLS should really destroy a vehicle. Anything that deals +160 damage over the health of a tank or anything that deals +80 damage over a light vehicle (M3, 221, 250, Kubel, etc.).
Example:
-This means that at 0 health, you shouldn't be getting situation on which you receive main gun destroy > light engine damage > heavy engine damage > abandoned > death.
-160 damage is what most sources of AT deals. This means that heavy hitters such as vehicles that deal 240, 320, SturmTiger and Artillery/Offmaps would get a guaranteed kill if the vehicle is at low health.

Also, certain light vehicles should have their main gun destroyed replaced by gunner killed such as the M3 or Kubel.

I think it's fine, just need a fix to callins so teching actually becomes valid and fix democharges.

I think the only thing that makes a game 'worthy' of e-Sports is if it's fun to watch and can attract enough players to make it competitive.

It's not like the game has to be perfectly balanced or immaculate, so long as people will watch and play it for whatever reason.

This is the biggest hurdle I feel, why are people going to start playing CoH2 when the player pool is so small compared to stuff like DotA, LoL (both of which are free games right? how do you compete with that?) and Starcraft?

I still feel like there's plans to make this game F2P somewhere down the line to keep the player base up.

I think it's fine, just need a fix to callins so teching actually becomes valid and fix democharges.

Demo charges do not need any fixes, because they are not broken in any way.

If you want to fix call-in meta, make tier units appealing, this goes specifically for soviets as all other armies have reliable tier units, only soviets needs to rely on doctrines for armor and infantry.

The patch looks great indeed, but I still the game need some overhaul and change.

US need jumbo, if relic don't want to grab the money from people who wants a pershing.

Soviet needs T-34/85 to be non-doctrinal and con DP-28 upgrade, the T-34/85 call-in became T-34/76 pack.

Call-in rework, most likely bounded to tiers.

Demo charges do not need any fixes, because they are not broken in any way.

If you want to fix call-in meta, make tier units appealing, this goes specifically for soviets as all other armies have reliable tier units, only soviets needs to rely on doctrines for armor and infantry.

Doesn't change the fact that you can and many times benefit on skipping all teching so you can pump out the more cost efficient callin units instead. Demo charges need fixing but everyone knows you are a soviet fanboy so i don't count on ever making you understand.