Well you are going to have your units spotting for you. Your tank isn't going to be right at the front lines anyway.
Adding a spotting scope is debatable. The Jagdtiger already works wonders on open maps. This could lead to more complaints
So.... about those Heavy tanks.
16 Oct 2014, 19:55 PM
#21
Posts: 2070
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
16 Oct 2014, 20:06 PM
#22
Posts: 1701
Well the JP4 can't spot for itself and can't see in any direction except forward, but it still has 60 range. The M10 and M36 can't spot for themselves either.
Well, the JP4 isnt doctrinal 13 CP, doesnt cost 800mp 290 fuel on a fuel starved faction, it may be spammable and it can come very early. (Are you really trying to compare a super heavy with a medium XD?)
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16 Oct 2014, 20:11 PM
#23
Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1
Well, the JP4 isnt doctrinal 13 CP, doesnt cost 800mp 290 fuel on a fuel starved faction, it may be spammable and it can come very early. (Are you really trying to compare a super heavy with a medium XD?)
A tank of that range shouldnt be spotting for itself anyway. You atleast need some effort to make it snipe tanks through buildings.
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b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast
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b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast
fan of the illustrious black prince
16 Oct 2014, 20:16 PM
#24
Posts: 1225
The Elefant is in a perfect spot at the moment.
"Perfect", huh? It's virtually useless, seriously. It is simply too weak by itself to generally be viable in the current meta, and even in its supposed niche application (containing the ISU) it does not actually perform all that well. Its among the units that needs some love asap.
16 Oct 2014, 20:18 PM
#25
15 
Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5
"Perfect", huh? It's virtually useless.
It's made quite a few appearances in the star crossed cup and has fared relatively well.
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16 Oct 2014, 20:27 PM
#26
Posts: 1225
Ok, maybe I should look this up first. My last impressions of it, admittedly dated by a month or so, were totally underwhelming tho.
16 Oct 2014, 20:39 PM
#27
15 Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5
Your assessment that it doesn't do THAT well against the ISU is not without merit, I'll give you that. But as noted by myself and others in some of the games so far jaeger armor is the hardest imaginable counter to counterattack tactics thanks to elephant shutting down KV-1 spam and stuka bomb strike shutting down B4.
So really I think the main issue in that regard is ISU-152 OP, plz nerf.
So really I think the main issue in that regard is ISU-152 OP, plz nerf.
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16 Oct 2014, 20:46 PM
#28
Posts: 46
Best thing I can think of is to remove them entirely.
Barring that? ISU needs to be toned down AT wise so there are available counters. Not so much that its useless against tanks but it shouldn't be a straight up hard counter. Granted, a a panther with proper support can Warp Drive right past the ISU and run circles on it while the infantry demolish everything else. But the ISU does need some kind of nerf.
JT shooting through buildings needs to be a timed ability as stated earlier. Maybe enough of a window to get off like 2-3 shots, good ability to use against retreating armor.
Elefant is hipster. It's fine as is.
Barring that? ISU needs to be toned down AT wise so there are available counters. Not so much that its useless against tanks but it shouldn't be a straight up hard counter. Granted, a a panther with proper support can Warp Drive right past the ISU and run circles on it while the infantry demolish everything else. But the ISU does need some kind of nerf.
JT shooting through buildings needs to be a timed ability as stated earlier. Maybe enough of a window to get off like 2-3 shots, good ability to use against retreating armor.
Elefant is hipster. It's fine as is.
16 Oct 2014, 20:52 PM
#29
Posts: 2070
Best thing I can think of is to remove them entirely.
Barring that? ISU needs to be toned down AT wise so there are available counters. Not so much that its useless against tanks but it shouldn't be a straight up hard counter. Granted, a a panther with proper support can Warp Drive right past the ISU and run circles on it while the infantry demolish everything else. But the ISU does need some kind of nerf.
JT shooting through buildings needs to be a timed ability as stated earlier. Maybe enough of a window to get off like 2-3 shots, good ability to use against retreating armor.
Elefant is hipster. It's fine as is.
ISU is actually kinda meh versus Axis heavies. It is the most potent Soviet AT vehicle in the game. If it gets nerfed then Soviets are going to be done for.
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
16 Oct 2014, 20:52 PM
#30
Posts: 1225
Well, I concur when it comes to counterattack. But then again, I wouldnt consider the KV1 component of it very problematical in the first place - its not that the KV1 is a bad tank, but it can be reasonably stopped by conventional AT. The B4 on the other hand decides game in the long run all by itself (and incidentally performs very well against the Elefant), and thats where the recon/stuka comobo comes in.
16 Oct 2014, 20:55 PM
#31
Posts: 2070
Well, I concur when it comes to counterattack. But then again, I wouldnt consider the KV1 component of it very problematical in the first place - its not that the KV1 is a bad tank, but it can be reasonably stopped by conventional AT. The B4 on the other hand decides game in the long run all by itself (and incidentally performs very well against the Elefant), and thats where the recon/stuka comobo comes in.
From what I have seen in the Star Crossed Cup, the Elefant works great with support such as with other tanks and Pak Guns. I will need to do some testing of the Elefant in some 4v4s. I will report back with my findings
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
16 Oct 2014, 20:57 PM
#32
Posts: 1225
From what I have seen in the Star Crossed Cup, the Elefant works great with support such as with other tanks and Pak Guns. I will need to do some testing of the Elefant in some 4v4s. I will report back with my findings
Well I should maybe note that I almost exclusively play 1v1/2v2, and my posts solely apply in that frame of reference.
16 Oct 2014, 21:01 PM
#33
Posts: 2070
Well I should maybe note that I almost exclusively play 1v1/2v2, and my posts solely apply in that frame of reference.
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
16 Oct 2014, 21:02 PM
#34
Posts: 1225
Well just saying, because I tried a few 4v4s once and the dynamics are really quite different, 10 minute tanks etc.
16 Oct 2014, 21:39 PM
#35
14 
Posts: 10665 | Subs: 9
Well just saying, because I tried a few 4v4s once and the dynamics are really quite different, 10 minute tanks etc.
You should have tried 4v4 with virgin Windustry!
You would never have heard hysterical rants about "Axis OP" at that stage,trust me!
16 Oct 2014, 22:45 PM
#36
2 Posts: 559
If I was to make any change, I would make side and rear armor more vulnerable so that AT guns and medium tanks stand a chance. Either that or decrease the range so they require being moved closer to the battle and thus more vulnerable.
16 Oct 2014, 22:55 PM
#37
Posts: 818
I really don't think the Jag or elephant are too strong in any way. They are super specialists and have no impact on infantry at all and are incredibly vulnerable to well positioned tanks, I hardly think they would be seen nearly as often if ISUs weren't so incredibly strong.
ISUs on the other hand are pretty OP, They shut down all infantry play incredibly hard, A range reduction or AOE reduction are necessary.
ISUs on the other hand are pretty OP, They shut down all infantry play incredibly hard, A range reduction or AOE reduction are necessary.
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16 Oct 2014, 23:32 PM
#38
2 Posts: 559
I really don't think the Jag or elephant are too strong in any way. They are super specialists and have no impact on infantry at all and are incredibly vulnerable to well positioned tanks, I hardly think they would be seen nearly as often if ISUs weren't so incredibly strong.
ISUs on the other hand are pretty OP, They shut down all infantry play incredibly hard, A range reduction or AOE reduction are necessary.
Agreed. Its just as Axis (especially in 3 v 3 or higher) the only hard counter to ISU is JT which itself really has no hard counter except a swarm of tanks or a B4 shot.
16 Oct 2014, 23:36 PM
#39
Posts: 2561
If I was to make any change, I would make side and rear armor more vulnerable so that AT guns and medium tanks stand a chance. Either that or decrease the range so they require being moved closer to the battle and thus more vulnerable.There is no such thing as side armor. I wish there was though.
17 Oct 2014, 02:00 AM
#40
Posts: 154 | Subs: 2
Even in a not-so-close game you'll have time to get them. That was bothers me the most. Infantry and AT-guns for 15 minutes then you can start with the call-ins basically. That is why I think tying call-ins to both CP req and tiers would be good. Who can afford to build T4 and get a heavy doctrinal tank before losing to much map and field presence? Heavy tanks should be a rarity in my opinion.
I like the Elephant btw, it's not a go-to-win-tank but feels more like a counter against KV-series. Horrible AI so it doesn't put a timer on your opponent really. It's difficult to say with alot of the other tanks because you have to take in consideration of what your opponent can counter you with, and with the factions not being really balanced it's hard to say. ISU however is obviously way to powerful and weird.
I like the Elephant btw, it's not a go-to-win-tank but feels more like a counter against KV-series. Horrible AI so it doesn't put a timer on your opponent really. It's difficult to say with alot of the other tanks because you have to take in consideration of what your opponent can counter you with, and with the factions not being really balanced it's hard to say. ISU however is obviously way to powerful and weird.
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