Pathetic Anti-Aircraft Capability.

Soviets worst AA lol

Soviets worst AA lol

I dunno about you guys, but that .50 Quad-Gun for the Soviet M5 seems pretty damn effective to me.

You want good AA? Do as all other armies and get dedicated AA vehicle.
Flak emplacements are not really AA weapon, because you start with them. And still, they are the cheapest one, so think of them as osttruppen of AA.

Flak HQ is effective, but don't expect it to one shot all planes on approach.

For best results you need to get flak HT which is best AA vehicle equal if not better then ostwind.

My planes get shot down a lot by the OKW flak HQ. It does not shoot down planes on the first pass 100% of the time but it really shouldn't anyway. Airplanes are a big part of the game and having the free 2cm cannons + flak HQ shoot down everything would render a lot of commander abilities useless which would be terrible for the game.

Only the build-able 2cm AA guns should get an AA improvement. This is something you actually buy in order to ward of enemy planes. If you don't go for the luftwaffe commander, get the AA halftrack like everybody else.

I would like it if the flak guns got a nerf in anti-armour performance, but better anti-infantry and anti-aircraft performance, they miss and hit the ground too much IMO.

Also would love to see Afrika Korps faction with 88 flak gun.

Edit, sick of planes falling on my stuff, needs something done. No one likes crashing planes killing your tanks.

Edit, sick of planes falling on my stuff, needs something done. No one likes crashing planes killing your tanks.

I like crashing planes killing YOUR tanks.

I think AA overall (not just for OKW) feels like an unfinished mechanic. It doesn't feel consistent enough nor does it feel rewarding if you actually focus on AA units. It kinda feels like something they put in but never bothered to finish establishing but thought 'yeah that's good enough'.

What someone said earlier about there being a 5% chance to actually shoot down the plane without their being any health makes so much sense. That's exactly what it feels like - imo it really shouldn't be this.

This is actually one place were what you described is pretty historically accurate.

The AA given to ground troops was pretty inadequate for the job. The range on many of the AA guns was no more than 1-2 miles at best. A gunner had to use iron sights to track and lead a plane moving at 250-350 miles per hour. If it is heading right for you the speed and deflection is less of a problem, but you are also shooting at it for a pretty short time.

The answer was to mass the amount of firepower. It wasn't one 50 cal gun that would bring down a plane, but having dozens trying to do so with the hope that some might find the target.

That said, there are other elements that are less historical. Allied ground forces were MUCH less likely to be exposed to air attack or recon than Axis ground forces. Not just were there more allied aircraft, they didn't have to spend time defending their own cities or lines and were able to keep the Luftwaffe on the defensive. It was pretty rare by 1944 that the Luftwaffe was able to play much of a role at all.

Further, the Allied planes were much better suited to ground attack. Sturmoviks and Typhoons were designed for ground attack, and the huge P47 was a heavily armored, fast, and very durable plane that turned out to be really well suited to ground attack. (One US P47 pilot, Robert Johnson, tangled with a bunch of German planes returning from an escort mission. He and his ground crew counted some 20 20mm hits to his plane and lost count of 7.62 hits when they were into the hundreds.)

Yep, everything on foot and scares away anything on weels up to medium armor. But its AA capabilities are rather questionable. Maybe its anti-armor power should be tone down a bit, while its AA capabilities should be increased.

DONT MAKE ME LAUGH

my p47's get rekt by okw AAA

I was watching Imperial Dane's last cast of a 2v2. I believe that the OKW flack hq destroyed 3 out of 4 spotter planes sent up by a Soviet player. Maybe someone could confirm that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YnSc9GVcxc&list=UUyUcNdOxXcVt3o9eZKdza9w

Base AA bunkers should see their AA and AT tone down.
T4 Flack HQ could see it's AT tone down, AA tone up and range tone down (AA range). EDIT: AND it needs a update on it's range. Since the buff, people still complain they are getting hit from "out of range"
Flack emplacement could see its AA tone up.
EVERY OTHER DEDICATED AA should get US AA HT mode which converts it into a real air threat.

I feel like the OKW should have no AA at all since the ALlies dominated the skies by late 1944

Short version:

You buy good AAA BECAUSE the enemy dominates the skies

+++++++++++++++

Longer version:

Well, the Germans had good AAA in 1940, this freed their own airforce for offensive operations rather than force protection.


In Russia they found that the Luftwaffe simply did not have the numbers to be everywhere, despite overwhelming individual superiority where they were. This is analagous to trying to fight 10 conscripts with 1 obersoldaten squad


Because Il2s will ruin your day and the fighters cannot be everywhere good AAA became even more important, but, right to the end, the Eastern Front was a place where otherwise obsolete planes could continue to be used


In the West the Allied airforces were numerous and competent enough to have total air supremacy most of the time, and when they didn't have it (Arnhem and the early Bulge), things did not go well for the ground troops.

German Forces in the West soon learned camouflage and to move by night; and that you absolutely do not shoot at the recon planes. Apart from the fact it gave away your position, shooting at the guys with the direct connection to the Field Artilley was not a good idea.


/History

You want good AA? Do as all other armies and get dedicated AA vehicle.
Flak emplacements are not really AA weapon, because you start with them. And still, they are the cheapest one, so think of them as osttruppen of AA.

Flak HQ is effective, but don't expect it to one shot all planes on approach.

For best results you need to get flak HT which is best AA vehicle equal if not better then ostwind.

What part of 2x Schwerer Panzer HQ (FlaK HQ) and 5 FlaK emplacements (160-fuel + 50-fuel = 210 total fuel) spent overall on FlaK emplacements did not make for a reliable anti-air sector.

That's over 7 FlaK emplacements in the left side of a map that could not RELIABLY kill aircraft. How is that not considered a problem?


I don't expect the initial 4x Base FlaK's to be good, hell I'd rather they were MG-42 bunkers.

What I do expect to be decent are the DOCTRINAL anti-aircraft batteries that you pay fuel, manpower, and popcap to build.

Rather than comment on what has already been said, I want to suggest one thing that does awesome in the anti-aircraft role:

Hulled down Ostwinds. They absolutely destroy. If they have vet as well, then just forget about using planes. They will shoot a bomber plane down before it even drops the bomb.

DONT MAKE ME LAUGH

my p47's get rekt by okw AAA

Mine doesn't. But I think I know why. If you play 4v4, and in the opposite team is more than one OKW, the AA combined capabilities could rape the P-47 I guess. I don't know, cause I don't do 4v4. On 2v2 or 1v1 this ain't happening and I'm pretty sure of it. I lost one-maybe 2 P-47s in all my paratrooper doctrine games (and I usualy use this doctrine as USF).

This is actually one place were what you described is pretty historically accurate.

The AA given to ground troops was pretty inadequate for the job. The range on many of the AA guns was no more than 1-2 miles at best. A gunner had to use iron sights to track and lead a plane moving at 250-350 miles per hour. If it is heading right for you the speed and deflection is less of a problem, but you are also shooting at it for a pretty short time.

The answer was to mass the amount of firepower. It wasn't one 50 cal gun that would bring down a plane, but having dozens trying to do so with the hope that some might find the target.

That said, there are other elements that are less historical. Allied ground forces were MUCH less likely to be exposed to air attack or recon than Axis ground forces. Not just were there more allied aircraft, they didn't have to spend time defending their own cities or lines and were able to keep the Luftwaffe on the defensive. It was pretty rare by 1944 that the Luftwaffe was able to play much of a role at all.

Further, the Allied planes were much better suited to ground attack. Sturmoviks and Typhoons were designed for ground attack, and the huge P47 was a heavily armored, fast, and very durable plane that turned out to be really well suited to ground attack. (One US P47 pilot, Robert Johnson, tangled with a bunch of German planes returning from an escort mission. He and his ground crew counted some 20 20mm hits to his plane and lost count of 7.62 hits when they were into the hundreds.)

Fair enough, maybe the AA at the moment is actually a good thing.

Rather than comment on what has already been said, I want to suggest one thing that does awesome in the anti-aircraft role:

Hulled down Ostwinds. They absolutely destroy. If they have vet as well, then just forget about using planes. They will shoot a bomber plane down before it even drops the bomb.

This sounds interesting, I'll try this out.

So I just watched a replay that reminded me of this thread. The AA halftrack in this game shot down every plane that got close to it. There is one part at the end of the game where it shoots both planes down on their 1st pass. It was the US P-47 rocket strike. I believe that they built a flak turret which shot a plane down as well.

http://www.coh2.org/replay/26100/3-vs-3-tvt-lanzerath-hinterhalt/page/1#post_id237520

want sierra wants in his base is this:

with one of these in each corner:

I remember watching a history channel show on those structures. They were so well built and well supplied that some of them were still manned right up until they announced that the war was over. Towards the end loads of civilians piled into them because they were the safest shelter in Berlin.

What about the Ostwind? That Flak can fuck the planes i think. Or the centaur?