OKW Teching

I was playing a 1v1 earlier today with okw vs usf. My strat is to get t2 and rush puma.

I proceed to convert munitions to fuel to rush t4, and lock down half of the map.

My opponent complained that my fast teching left him unable to counter. My first reponce was to tell him to l2p.

upon thinking, im starting to agree with him.

He must rush to get m20 to counter my kubels. I tech to puma to counter m20. I then tech to t4 to secure a large portion of the map. Then proceed to get double Obersoldoten. i then proceed to get panther.

My question being.. Should okw be force into linear teching like Wehr?

Its a meta problem not a faction design one in this instance. Normally one might be able to go bazookas to counter the puma or kubel or in other words aim for captain, but unfortunatley the bazooka cannot counter either of those units adequatley, and a stuart is not reliably going to beat a puma either and they will have multiple shrecks to counter the stuart as well.

He must rush to get m20 to counter my kubels.

No, he doesnt't have to, he just chosed to counter your kubel like this.

I tech to puma to counter m20.

No, you don't have to. You can counter it with anything that sounds like an AT unit.

My question being.. Should okw be force into linear teching like Wehr?

By "linear teching" do you understand that "phases" thing? OKW buildings are not designed that way. Virtualy, every building contains AI and AT counters so in theory, just one will suffise to carry on battles. The concept is quite different from other armies and I think this is a good thing and like it. OKW has other problems that need to be fixed, I don't think the teching system is its problem.

No, he doesnt't have to, he just chosed to counter your kubel like this.

So please, tell me how do You counter effectively kubel if M20 is not the only way? Captain with bazookas which hardly hit kubel?

I hate OKW T4 as hell. Put it near fuel + one inf squad and it's locked for a very long time.
Puma in my opinion appears on field a little too early. It should be counter for Stuart but if you look at timeline Stuart is actually counter for Puma.

The fact that (if the OKW player wants to) the puma and schrecks are on the field at roughly the same time the "fast" M20 hits the field. This is a pretty stupid mechanic and not very well thought out by the devs.

Even the famous luchs rush isn't too bad of a choice since you can pretty safely fend off the M20 with even one schreck squad if you just stick your forces together. Even better if you have a raketenwerfer.

Also the T4 truck itself is a ridiculously effective tool of area denial.

Its pretty much the current meta for OKW.

Either:
goes T2 for flak and puma especially against USF

goes T2 for flak/stuka and T4 by 10 mins for luchs or ober against SU

the medic truck T1 is not that important since sturmpios could drop medic packs (x3) for 30mun.

Well by the time the M20 is out the OKW should have one shreck in production maybe, if you rush for puma you must get muni transfer to fuel to come even close to the M20 timing so no shreck in this case but you can have a racketen at anytime though.

M20 shouldn't come any later than 5 minutes if so the US player screwed up somewhere, either no map control or spammed to many rifles and is bleeding mp like crazy.

I do agree that you have a very short window of opportunity to kill the kunbel but if used properly M20 will kill it in 1 or 2 volleys. Try this once M20 is out try to move your infantry around the kunbel make it face its rear armor towards the incoming M20

And if you think that puma is on the way a few At mines at key spots, roads or flanking routes and most importantly keep the M20 near the mines to bait the puma.

The reason why puma comes this early seems to be mainly to counter the US HT.

As for the T4 Truck, US At gun with a spotter (pathfinder or M20) seems to be the most effective option, but good placement will make that very hard to pull off.

As for the Teching system I really haven't given it much thought so don't any suggestions regarding that.

just silly that in big team games all I need is Shreck volks a kunbel a Stuka and wait for the big tanks, if you want durable AI go for a few panzerfusilliers and you are set, but haven't played much OKW in big team games so might be wrong.

The fact that (if the OKW player wants to) the puma and schrecks are on the field at roughly the same time the "fast" M20 hits the field. This is a pretty stupid mechanic and not very well thought out by the devs.

Even the famous luchs rush isn't too bad of a choice since you can pretty safely fend off the M20 with even one schreck squad if you just stick your forces together. Even better if you have a raketenwerfer.

Also the T4 truck itself is a ridiculously effective tool of area denial.

Are you fucking kidding me? you are saying that an unit should have no counters when it arrives completely able to rampage in your lines with impunity. I think you are the one not thinking straight here.

Oh yes try to beat the m20 or even better the flak track with the raketten or shrek thats fun stuff and a good way of losing the game.

So please, tell me how do You counter effectively kubel if M20 is not the only way? Captain with bazookas which hardly hit kubel?

I hate OKW T4 as hell. Put it near fuel + one inf squad and it's locked for a very long time.
Puma in my opinion appears on field a little too early. It should be counter for Stuart but if you look at timeline Stuart is actually counter for Puma.

50 cal or quad also work. in the case of the quad it can also go effectively go against the puma provided its close range.

Are you fucking kidding me? you are saying that an unit should have no counters when it arrives completely able to rampage in your lines with impunity. I think you are the one not thinking straight here.

Oh yes try to beat the m20 or even better the flak track with the raketten or shrek thats fun stuff and a good way of losing the game.

I have to agree with you here xD

50 cal or quad also work. in the case of the quad it can also go effectively go against the puma provided its close range.

Tell me, when Kubel apperas on the field and when 50 cal.

50 cal or quad also work. in the case of the quad it can also go effectively go against the puma provided its close range.

also, try ISU 152, great kubel counter

also, try ISU 152, great kubel counter

P-47 counter konig kubel also.

Tell me, when Kubel apperas on the field and when 50 cal.

You dont even need the 50 cal just rifleman and green cover.

also, try ISU 152, great kubel counter

P-47 counter konig kubel also.

See their are counters i suggest everybody stop whining about the kubel.

See their are counters i suggest everybody stop whining about the kubel.

They are joking.
The point im trying to raise here is. OKw has little to fear. u can lock down rifles if u veto the right maps and micro kubel correctly.

m20 is useless due to puma and shreks. with t3 rush okw can convert muni to fuel. to get t4 even FASTER.

I usually get 2 obers around the 11min mark. While usf still has to work with rifles.

also, try ISU 152, great kubel counter

Some games ago my Kübelwagen dodged some ISU shots and managed to get behind it and then killed it.

They are joking.
The point im trying to raise here is. OKw has little to fear. u can lock down rifles if u veto the right maps and micro kubel correctly.

m20 is useless due to puma and shreks. with t3 rush okw can convert muni to fuel. to get t4 even FASTER.

I usually get 2 obers around the 11min mark. While usf still has to work with rifles.

The point im trying to raise here is. US has little to fear. u can lock down grens if u veto the right maps and micro them correctly.
Scout Car is useless due to Stuart and Bazooka. with t3 rush us forces can build caches for fuel. to get t4 even FASTER.
I usually get 2 paratroopers around the 11min mark. While axis still have to work with grens.

See the bullshit your spout? It's the essence of coh to have a counter ready for the enemy counter of your unit.

Why else you build paks/raketenwerfer/zis/57mm guns at minute 10 (in case your opponent won early game)? In order to counter their counter.

Likewise you can counter a Kübel by going t3 and in that case you can counter also the puma that follows it.

The reason why Kubels and Pumas are so strong is because the intended coutner, Bazookas are so god damn awful. They're unable to consistently hit small fast vehicles, and unable to penetrate big tanks.

The problem with the US Teching system is T2 literally has no AT whatsoever, No Bazookas, no AT guns, No Stuart. Whilst T3 has everything; Bazookas, AT Guns and Stuart. Not that they're particularly effective, due to Bazookas drastic underperformance, and AT guns being too immobile against the Puma, let alone with smoke.

But it really should be mixed up because of how much overlap. I think Moving the Lieutenant Squad to T3 instead of the Captain Squad to T2 would definitely help things out. Going US T2 can be a huge gamble if the OKW pulls out a T3 and then there's literally no counter to Puma or Flak Half Track until fast Sherman rush.

The other really huge problem with the meta is that US's lack of dependable AT is made so much worse because of the lack of mines. If Rear Echelon could build mines like every other faction then countering both light vehicles early and heavy tanks later would be much more fair and balanced.