OKW Teching

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2014, 10:20 AMAchtAchter

Likewise you can counter a Kübel by going t3 and in that case you can counter also the puma that follows it.

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2014, 07:46 AMJaigen

Are you fucking kidding me? you are saying that an unit should have no counters when it arrives completely able to rampage in your lines with impunity. I think you are the one not thinking straight here.

Oh yes try to beat the m20 or even better the flak track with the raketten or shrek thats fun stuff and a good way of losing the game.

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2014, 07:46 AMJaigen

Are you fucking kidding me? you are saying that an unit should have no counters when it arrives completely able to rampage in your lines with impunity. I think you are the one not thinking straight here.

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2014, 11:26 AMKatitof

I see you finally admitted to nerf kubel, which is a unit that have no counter when it arrives against USF and is able to rampage in USF lines with impunity, forcing all infantry back to base.

The description matches Kubel well, now apply your straight thinking to axis unit, if you are able to.

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2014, 10:53 AMTNrg

No, I'm not saying that. But there should be a window of opportunity. And the M20 is easily killed by raketen + schreck combo. If not killed, it's ability to "rampage" is severely hindered. For the flak HT you have the puma. And schrecks + raketen in buildings.

Oh, btw the Puma also makes soviet T3 totally useless since puma + schrecks counter it perfectly before you even have the T3 building up. Don't even really need raketen,they help of course.

Puma + schrecks also counter the Stuart before it's on the field. So if you choose captain against OKW, your only effective way is the AT guns to deal with armor. But going captain instead of major delays your own tanks a lot. So there are basically only bad choices against the OKW as the USF, and the puma isn't too bad (in combo with the schreck blobs again) against USF tanks either.

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2014, 11:50 AMJaigen

Wtf is wrong with you people are seriously expecting units should have no counters when it arrives. both the t-34 and the stuart can kill a puma when properly used.

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2014, 11:47 AMJaigen

m20 is bulletproof with 11 armor a

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2014, 11:47 AMJaigen

lets ignore the fact that the m20 is bulletproof with 11 armor and even if you stick units into a garrison it will still win.

Does it force the usf player on the defensive? yes it does.

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2014, 10:50 AMQueenRatchet123

So.. i have to tech to t3. TO COUNTER A T1 UNIT! KUBEL IS BROKEN! KUBEL IS BROKEN! KUBEL IS BROKEN! KUBEL IS FREAKING BROOKKKENNN!!!!!

t3 to counter puma? This is very difficult.. Stuart has a hard time getting in range to stun and coordinate ATG or captain to kill puma.

not to mention. the Stuart come out LATER then then the puma. but the time a usf player gets t3 id be setting up my t4. They then cant counter my elite infantry. Then wat? Back tech to t2? NO NO NO. by that time my panther would be in production to follow up on my elite infantry.

dont u DARE try to compare paras to obers. U wont even have them if u dont choose the right commander. Also they get rekt once obers reach vet 2

Whats next? do u need a jackson and p47 strafe to counter puma?

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2014, 12:11 PMAchtAchter

I was speaking of at guns that counter a puma. For a hard counter you need the t4 Jackson. That's how coh2 works for all factions.

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2014, 11:47 AMJaigen

lets ignore the fact that the m20 is bulletproof with 11 armor and even if you stick units into a garrison it will still win.

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2014, 12:11 PMAchtAchter

Listen kid, no t0 units are supposed to hard counter each other. For hard counters you need teching.
Soft counters to Kübels are smoke grenades or at nades. This works well on every map except for Minsk pocket.

I was speaking of at guns that counter a puma. For a hard counter you need the t4 Jackson. That's how coh2 works for all factions.


Paratroopers are not better than obersoldaten, my writing was just to show you that fanboy spout sounds always the same, you just need to exchange the units.

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2014, 12:20 PMQueenRatchet123

Units dont perform the same. so ur point is invalid. Smoke is useless on kubel. Nades? REALLY?!?!

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2014, 12:20 PMQueenRatchet123

Units dont perform the same. so ur point is invalid.

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2014, 12:20 PMQueenRatchet123

Smoke is useless on kubel. Nades? REALLY?!?!

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2014, 12:49 PMAchtAchter

Grens also don't loose just by 15 % to Rifles as their price would indicate.

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2014, 12:25 PMTNrg

Also in Siberian's stream (I think it was his stream, might have been someone else's but it doesn't really matter) I saw an ISU-152 shell land right next to the damn kubel and it survived with 5 %. That is beyond absurd.

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2014, 13:07 PMKallipolan

I like the basic structure of OKW tech, but I think the issue is that they are afforded a bit too much flexibility. Whichever truck you put down first, you have the tools to counter whatever an opponent throws at you. Even if you go Medic Truck you have Schrecks and the Raketenwerfer for AT, and if you go Mech Truck you have Sturmpioneers for healing and both AI and AT vehicles. The availability of doctrinal elite infantry for OKW means you will never lack for that either.

Compare this to US teching structure. LT has no proper AT unit (only soft counters), and the Captain doesn't offer much of a way to counter elite infantry (both Stuart and Pack Howie are bad buys IMO). This is why airborne is practically the only viable strat at the moment: it covers this weakness. The issue of Kubel into Puma is a particular case that exploits the US's dodgy tech.

I like the idea of branching tech, but this needs to come with appropriate weaknesses and tradeoffs. Currently, this isn't the case for OKW.

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2014, 12:49 PMAchtAchter

It's useless in your hands.