Relic will be previewing observer mode

IMO it is better to err on the safe side, with regards to the delay. Mines can persist on the battelfied for quite some time, and we wouldn't want this new feature mired in a bunch of cheat worries. For custom games, players can set no delay at all.

The host can also turn off obs completely or set a password for their game. Automatch obs can't be switched off however and will have a constant 8 min delay. The game will always be 8 mins behind actual live even if you try to fast forward to live.

from the few moments i saw the stream it looked pretty good but the red color seemed very off?

The host can also turn off obs completely or set a password for their game. Automatch obs can't be switched off however and will have a constant 8 min delay. The game will always be 8 mins behind actual live even if you try to fast forward to live.

Indeed but isn't this a subject to change? I understand that Relic wants to be safe regarding the delay but we're not talking about 8 minutes compared to no delay but rather a decent 3 minute delay like in other comparable observer modes.

I don't know if there are any plans to implement this but it would be really cool with an "observer chat" so you can discuss a current game with other viewers.

As Ami said. Basically the 8 minutes delay for the automatch was added for one main reason which is that COH2, compared to all the other RTS on the market, has persistent elements that can be placed on maps (mines) that have the potential to stay there for a very long time while still retaining a high impact on the esit of the game.

I think the delay for the automatch could be toned down if Relic wants to, but honestly there will be no interactions between observers and players in the automatch so it doesn't change much if it is 8 minutes or 15 minutes or more.

The situation changes if games in the automatch are observable live or the delay is very lowbecause, as you guys said, someone could give valuable information to his friends playing and help them winning.

While this is already possible when someone streams the situation of those two cases is completely different: when you stream you know already that someone could snipe you or have a friend helping him in a game vs you, so you are taking a risk intentionally. When you are automatching instead and there is a tool that YOU CANNOT control due to which people can see ALL the map without fog of war then the game itself has to protect you from every possible exploitation.

Let's be very clear guys: if tomorrow we organize a competitive event for COH2 that is not a live event in RL with players in booths and referees checking what they do but an online tournament (like SNF for example) we would still not cast games live. We would have to add a delay, eventually of 5 or 8 minutes, either in the settings of the game or in the stream (probably in the game settings to still be in contact "live" with viewers).

An event where we would cast real time with 0 delay could happen only in RL on a studio with booths and referees, where we would have total control that there is no communication between players and outsiders.

Indeed but isn't this a subject to change? I understand that Relic wants to be safe regarding the delay but we're not talking about 8 minutes compared to no delay but rather a decent 3 minute delay like in other comparable observer modes.

I don't know if there are any plans to implement this but it would be really cool with an "observer chat" so you can discuss a current game with other viewers.

It's 3 minutes in MOBAs because that's how long wards last. Mines for example can persist for the whole game.

The bans were being thrown left and right in the chat because the player-base is irate about Relic showing off this superfluous and Majorly overdue feature while the game itself is mired in game-breaking bugs, bugsplats and drophacks.

To add insult to injury we have Cynthia saying things like "this is what players want" and putting on a facade of understanding the community that Relic isn't interacting with when she displayed a distinct lack of knowledge of the game mechanics themselves. She even said "someone is requesting a rewind demonstration" to which Peter Q had to bite the bullet and say "uuuuuuh... we don't have that."

Relic is unprofessional, patronizing, inept and glib. I used to be one of the chat users who would vigorously defend them during streams when decent changes were being made but I am at my wits end to demonstrate any faith in them what-so-ever at this point.

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Just wanna throw in there it seems weird that ATR3UH gets no shout out from Relic when he poured hours of his time into showing how a decent display for replay casting could be done.

The bans were being thrown left and right in the chat because the player-base is irate about Relic showing off this superfluous and Majorly overdue feature while the game itself is mired in game-breaking bugs, bugsplats and drophacks.

To add insult to injury we have Cynthia saying things like "this is what players want" and putting on a facade of understanding the community that Relic isn't interacting with when she displayed a distinct lack of knowledge of the game mechanics themselves. She even said "someone is requesting a rewind demonstration" to which Peter Q had to bite the bullet and say "uuuuuuh... we don't have that."

Relic is unprofessional, patronizing, inept and glib. I used to be one of the chat users who would vigorously defend them during streams when decent changes were being made but I am at my wits end to demonstrate any faith in them what-so-ever at this point.

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Just wanna throw in there it seems weird that ATR3UH gets no shout out from Relic when he poured hours of his time into showing how a decent display for replay casting could be done.

Way too many important members got nothing ZERO no honorable mentions. I felt bad. Too many people have done free advertisement for this game and get nothing.

I also hate the fake faces like the devs actually regularly play this game. Its like they think we are stupid.

Honestly if they played this game for at least 2hours a week. It would be MUCH better.

I AM SHOCKED there were no mentions of RnP

Edit: ATR3UH's post is better than mine!

Just wanna throw in there it seems weird that ATR3UH gets no shout out from Relic when he poured hours of his time into showing how a decent display for replay casting could be done.

I have no part in this observer mode, thus no recognition. But thanks for thinking of me!

We tried to get ATR3UH in the alpha because he's been doing such great things with the videos for awhile now. The reason for him not being in there is on our end, but he's definitely been showing some fantastic work.

I'm definitely excited to see what he's able to do with Observer Mode in his hands!

What about Rogers 'n Pounder? They have been around for ages yet I never saw them in alpha...

We tried to get ATR3UH in the alpha because he's been doing such great things with the videos for awhile now. The reason for him not being in there is on our end, but he's definitely been showing some fantastic work.

I'm definitely excited to see what he's able to do with Observer Mode in his hands!

This is exactly what I am talking about. I addressed multiple issues in my post and the community rep focuses on the arbitrary shout out at the end and doesn't acknowledge any of the real content. It's like when the deadbeat dad shows up once a year with a new puppy or something and says "look a puppy, I know I don't ever spend any time with you or provide a good male role-model but... gifts!" That is when their kid kills the puppy.

Indeed but isn't this a subject to change? I understand that Relic wants to be safe regarding the delay but we're not talking about 8 minutes compared to no delay but rather a decent 3 minute delay like in other comparable observer modes.

I don't know if there are any plans to implement this but it would be really cool with an "observer chat" so you can discuss a current game with other viewers.

I don't think 3 minutes in COH2 would be enough. (but I could be wrong) We did some tests and asked for quite some feedback from casters and players and the general consensus was that mines/demo charges, as a core aspect of the COH2 gameplay, deserve a lot of respect, and 3 minutes are not enough to be sure they would be blown up already. It is hard to pull out a right number because on one side you want to offer a "as close to live" experience to viewers, but on the other side you have to make sure players can't be exploited.

I spectate pretty much every day matches of League of Legends using their built-in obs mode (with 3 minutes delay) and I really believe 3 minutes is the perfect delay there. I also know from playing with friends that often some information that are apparently irrelevant become immensely important. Let me give an example: right now in COH2 the meta is dominated by call-ins based strategies. By having a 3 minute delay in the automatch the information you could give to another player are immense: doctrine picked (which is probably one of those things with the highest impact), tech choice, mines placement.

I believe that Relic wants to go super-safe right now and go with 8 minutes to make sure it's impossible to have players communicate with observers in the automatch. After a first period of tests I would be totally up to propose Relic to lower the delay to about 5-6 minutes (if it's possible) and see how it turns out.

Overall tho it's irrelevant: since you are not supposed to interact with players in the automatch but just spectate games with specific tools the delay could even be 1 hour.
What instead I think should be in the game is a way to let observers feel more involved when spectating, like being able to see mouse clicks and even players camera movement (like SC2) but I have no idea if it's possible.

To answer your question, "Observing as a Party" feature should allow you to chat with the friends in your group while spectating the game while also being in sync with each other.
Since spectators in the automatch won't be in sync this means that there would be no point to allow them to chat because they could be watching totally different moments of a game.

That said, on tournaments (that are based on custom games) it will definitely be possible for you and your friends to spectate games (if allowed by the game host) and chat together.

It's 3 minutes in MOBAs because that's how long wards last. Mines for example can persist for the whole game.

Fine enough but where did you get the number 8 from? Is it the average time from when a mine is deployed until it detonates? As you said, mines can persist for the whole game, why not just auto upload replays so we can be 100% sure that no one can help the players? 8 minutes is excessive, I would personally like 3 minutes but would probably be satisfied with 5.

This is exactly what I am talking about. I addressed multiple issues in my post and the community rep focuses on the arbitrary shout out at the end and doesn't acknowledge any of the real content. It's like when the deadbeat dad shows up once a year with a new puppy or something and says "look a puppy, I know I don't ever spend any time with you or provide a good male role-model but... gifts!" That is when their kid kills the puppy.

What response are you looking for? "I'm sorry this game has lots of bugs and balance issues. We'll try to be less gib and patronizing in the future"?

What response are you looking for? "I'm sorry this game has lots of bugs and balance issues. We'll try to be less gib and patronizing in the future"?

How about, communicating with us on the forum. Giving even the vaguest of time-tables for fixes to bugs that have existed since Beta, their community rep having an iota of game knowledge, focusing on fundamental game issues instead of fluffy observer mode etc..

It would be awesome if you could have observer mode in real time with no delay in automatch from just one player's perspective. Then it would have the fog of war and there could be no collusion. Of course the player would want to password-protect this access so his opponent's friends cannot see etc. So maybe a streamer can share password with his viewers if they want to watch live.

But maybe there will still be some risk with this, just like stream sniping.

How about, communicating with us on the forum. Giving even the vaguest of time-tables for fixes to bugs that have existed since Beta, their community rep having an iota of game knowledge, focusing on fundamental game issues instead of fluffy observer mode etc..

I'd like that as much as you would but I think we both know that Relic doesn't know when those bugs will get fixed anymore than we do.

The bans were being thrown left and right in the chat because the player-base is irate about Relic showing off this superfluous and Majorly overdue feature while the game itself is mired in game-breaking bugs, bugsplats and drophacks.

I can't speak for the rest of the issues you raised but I can assure you that the team that focused on OBS mode has nothing to do with the developers working on balance and bugs. You may consider this an overdue feature but this is something we are asking from years and that Relic surely planned to do way before they added all those bugs in the game.

I am sure they know very well that when the ESL event will start the game will have to be in a very clean state (and I'm not talking just about bugs but also about input lag and performance optimization, as well as balance OFC), let's see what they will be able to pull out.

I don't think 3 minutes in COH2 would be enough. (but I could be wrong) We did some tests and asked for quite some feedback from casters and players and the general consensus was that mines/demo charges, as a core aspect of the COH2 gameplay, deserve a lot of respect, and 3 minutes are not enough to be sure they would be blown up already. It is hard to pull out a right number because on one side you want to offer a "as close to live" experience to viewers, but on the other side you have to make sure players can't be exploited.

I spectate pretty much every day matches of League of Legends using their built-in obs mode (with 3 minutes delay) and I really believe 3 minutes is the perfect delay there. I also know from playing with friends that often some information that are apparently irrelevant become immensely important. Let me give an example: right now in COH2 the meta is dominated by call-ins based strategies. By having a 3 minute delay in the automatch the information you could give to another player are immense: doctrine picked (which is probably one of those things with the highest impact), tech choice, mines placement.

I believe that Relic wants to go super-safe right now and go with 8 minutes to make sure it's impossible to have players communicate with observers in the automatch. After a first period of tests I would be totally up to propose Relic to lower the delay to about 5-6 minutes (if it's possible) and see how it turns out.

Overall tho it's irrelevant: since you are not supposed to interact with players in the automatch but just spectate games with specific tools the delay could even be 1 hour.
What instead I think should be in the game is a way to let observers feel more involved when spectating, like being able to see mouse clicks and even players camera movement (like SC2) but I have no idea if it's possible.

To answer your question, "Observing as a Party" feature should allow you to chat with the friends in your group while spectating the game while also being in sync with each other.
Since spectators in the automatch won't be in sync this means that there would be no point to allow them to chat because they could be watching totally different moments of a game.

That said, on tournaments (that are based on custom games) it will definitely be possible for you and your friends to spectate games (if allowed by the game host) and chat together.

You have some very good points and I wouldn't suggest anything else, as long as the delay can be toned down in the future if it's possible without opening up for abuse. I guess we all want the observer mode to be as "live" as possible.

And about the chat, why would it be bad to chat with other players you are not in sync with? Why not just enable an option to toggle on and off the chat? Just some thoughts... I would hate to miss any advice just because I can't watch the chat since I was not in their observer party.

The fuck guys, I am also very critical, but this is just plain crazy.
They just showed a major improvement to both automatch and competition.
Be happy, write down your doubts but dont act like total dicks.

This is a good thing, lets remember that.