My problem with OKW and USF

Not really a complaint, just sort of a topic to see whether others share this view, anyway on topic.

Ever since WFA for me blobbing seems to have gotten worse, whether it be Volks blobs or rifle blobs it gets annoying. I attribute this to the way that the factions are designed.

First off the USF
This faction has the problem since it has one non doctrinal infantry unit, Riflemen, I see the attempted design to make rifles upgrade to anything, however this just promotes blobs of them to deal with threats.

Next OKW
The OKW are the opposite they have lots of infantry for specific threats, obersoldaten for AI and Volks for AT, and because of less fuel tanks come later and less often. This causes OKW to usually blob infantry as it is the only thing they get for a while (not counting Kubelwagon and the raketenwerfer which seems to underperform).

Ostheer and Soviets don't have this problem as they have access earlier to AT guns, MGs and support weapons with infantry support, also tanks come sooner, though some do blob conscripts or grenadiers it is less common.

Just thought I should share my opinion and see if anyone agrees or comes up with possible solutions, feel free to rip the post apart.

Agree 100%.
I believe that the USF should have an alternative to Riflemen early on. They could have gone like infantry dedicated to AT like a 2 men bazooka team. Not a hard counter but definitely can help a bit against the Kubelwagen.

Agree 100%.
I believe that the USF should have an alternative to Riflemen early on. They could have gone like infantry dedicated to AT like a 2 men bazooka team. Not a hard counter but definitely can help a bit against the Kubelwagen.

Yes that would be an idea, i just think the new factions are too reliant on infantry, compared to Ostheer for example you can get Paks, MG42s and Mortars early and cheap whereas USF 50.cal locked in expensive tier, and OKW has no core MG. It becomes battle of the blobs.

Yes that would be an idea, i just think the new factions are too reliant on infantry, compared to Ostheer for example you can get Paks, MG42s and Mortars early and cheap whereas USF 50.cal locked in expensive tier, and OKW has no core MG. It becomes battle of the blobs.

i.e : Factions from SC2.

Indeed, both factions need their own Pak and MG crew earlier. At least OKW have a semi-reliable Raketenwerfer.

I've thought about it and I concluded I just really hate the idea of main-line infantry getting Panzerschrecks. If Sturmpioneers or a dedicated tank hunter unit got them, it'd be fine. I also hate their veterancy, 3 durability buffs is too much, they become nearly impossible to wipe. I also hate that the Panzer IV that was prominently advertised is about as common as an SU-76, despite being beautifully modeled. Ditto for USF having their 76 Sherman removed seemingly for no reason other than to cripple them and force them to make Jacksons. I don't like Jacksons because their high damage and average penetration mean they're very RNG units that will decide beyond your control whether or not the enemy's tanks make it away or not.

*Interestingly OKW has an unfinished winter model for a "tank hunter", it's identical to the Panzergrenadier winter model, except a bit more desaturated, and the Panzerschreck rocket on his back is replaced with a Panzerfaust.

I've thought about it and I concluded I just really hate the idea of main-line infantry getting Panzerschrecks. If Sturmpioneers or a dedicated tank hunter unit got them, it'd be fine. I also hate their veterancy, 3 durability buffs is too much, they become nearly impossible to wipe.

*Interestingly OKW has an unfinished winter model for a "tank hunter", it's identical to the Panzergrenadier winter model, except a bit more desaturated, and the Panzerschreck rocket on his back is replaced with a Panzerfaust.

My dream for OKW I would give Volks option for MP40s and Sturmpioneers Panzerschrecks, expensive sturms means blobbing wouldn't as easy.

P.S Have a pic of those tank hunters?

P.S Have a pic of those tank hunters?

On the right, next to the slightly bugged Panzergrenadier model for comparison.

On the right, next to the slightly bugged Panzergrenadier model for comparison.

Thanks, it sucks new units are reskins though, like Volks are conscripts and jaegers are panzergrenadiers. They will probably be a doctrinal unit for OKW, which may mean new doctrines on the horizon like that urban breakout one that was leaked.

Edit
On topic. I think it would be good to make rifle company give rangers instead of veteran riflemen, at a higher CP of course.

I also think USF needs another non-doctrinal infantry unit, and also there should be something else done to discourage blobbing for all factions.

I've thought about it and I concluded I just really hate the idea of main-line infantry getting Panzerschrecks. If Sturmpioneers or a dedicated tank hunter unit got them, it'd be fine. I also hate their veterancy, 3 durability buffs is too much, they become nearly impossible to wipe. I also hate that the Panzer IV that was prominently advertised is about as common as an SU-76, despite being beautifully modeled. Ditto for USF having their 76 Sherman removed seemingly for no reason other than to cripple them and force them to make Jacksons. I don't like Jacksons because their high damage and average penetration mean they're very RNG units that will decide beyond your control whether or not the enemy's tanks make it away or not.

*Interestingly OKW has an unfinished winter model for a "tank hunter", it's identical to the Panzergrenadier winter model, except a bit more desaturated, and the Panzerschreck rocket on his back is replaced with a Panzerfaust.

yep, shrecks on pgrens are balanced because it is a very fragile squad (a reason why i never get shrecks on pgnres despite always building a pgren squad).
volks' received accuracy bonuses are also laughable over the top

ive seen a lot more okw blobbing

Shrecks on Volks is a really bad decision. Not only are they the cheapest base infantry in the game, their veterancy is crazy good, and shrecks mean they will easily get vet 5 which makes them damn near invincible to small arms fire. The double shrecks on PGrens actually makes it a real choice; you need to specialize your close-range infantry into AT goons; since Volks only get 1 shreck, don't do that much rifle damage anyway and get a lot of their AI DPS from grenades, it's just a straight upgrade for them.

I don't feel that OKW is forced to blob. It's just too effective. The Puma and AAHT are both very powerful, potent units, as is the Jagdpanzer; it's just that they require more micro than a-moving the shreck + (insert elite infantry here) blob for not much better results in many cases. Because OKW infantry is just that damn good even without the insane vet they get.

US is not forced to blob either (indeed in my experiences pulling off flanks is the best way to use them), but they are forced to build at least 3 rifles at start, will get at least 2 officier units, plus the RE squad. So that's a mandatory 6 infantry units per game, not counting an extra rifle, a third officier, or doctrinal infantry like airborne, pathfinders or AssEngies. So they need to have a big infantry army by design, and that really doesn't help their massive upkeep.

Shrecks on Volks is a really bad decision. Not only are they the cheapest base infantry in the game, their veterancy is crazy good, and shrecks mean they will easily get vet 5 which makes them damn near invincible to small arms fire. The double shrecks on PGrens actually makes it a real choice; you need to specialize your close-range infantry into AT goons; since Volks only get 1 shreck, don't do that much rifle damage anyway and get a lot of their AI DPS from grenades, it's just a straight upgrade for them.

I don't feel that OKW is forced to blob. It's just too effective. The Puma and AAHT are both very powerful, potent units, as is the Jagdpanzer; it's just that they require more micro than a-moving the shreck + (insert elite infantry here) blob for not much better results in many cases. Because OKW infantry is just that damn good even without the insane vet they get.

US is not forced to blob either (indeed in my experiences pulling off flanks is the best way to use them), but they are forced to build at least 3 rifles at start, will get at least 2 officier units, plus the RE squad. So that's a mandatory 6 infantry units per game, not counting an extra rifle, a third officier, or doctrinal infantry like airborne, pathfinders or AssEngies. So they need to have a big infantry army by design, and that really doesn't help their massive upkeep.

I'd have to dig up the figures, but Allied infantry never really get that much harder to kill except for maybe shock troops (least versatile infantry sweeper in the game has thick skin? Who knew) while OKW infantry are made of steel. Its the Pioneer Spam paradox- why build grenadiers, KCH's or MG42's when pioneers are just as hard to kill but cost less?

I'd have to dig up the figures, but Allied infantry never really get that much harder to kill except for maybe shock troops (least versatile infantry sweeper in the game has thick skin? Who knew) while OKW infantry are made of steel. Its the Pioneer Spam paradox- why build grenadiers, KCH's or MG42's when pioneers are just as hard to kill but cost less?

OKW infantry are not made of me...

On-topic, the volksgrenadiere panzerschreck need to be moved to some other unit(sturmpioniere maybe?) or maybe raise the price to 120 and give 2 panzerschrecks. My personal opinion since I'm tired of seeing my OKW teammate just blobbing panzerschreck volksgrenadiere and march to a new place.

Fun fact: OKW is a starved army but they can afford panzerschrecks and not panzerfaust.

ive seen a lot more okw blobbing

Probably more to do with USF and Soviet Mgs, which are worse vs blobs than Axis mgs, Particularly with this retreat bug. people might try to use the 50 cal more if it had some of its issues fixed.

I think a commander like the soviet defensive doctrine with multiple support weapons at low cps would help to give these factions more options

OKW infantry are not made of me...

On-topic, the volksgrenadiere panzerschreck need to be moved to some other unit(sturmpioniere maybe?) or maybe raise the price to 120 and give 2 panzerschrecks. My personal opinion since I'm tired of seeing my OKW teammate just blobbing panzerschreck volksgrenadiere and march to a new place.

Fun fact: OKW is a starved army but they can afford panzerschrecks and not panzerfaust.

The ironic thing is that Relic goes out of their way to make OKW builders a competent combat unit.


Then they make their counterpart volksgrenadiers- a military division that was unique for its unusually high frequency of automatic weaponry. In game they get none of this, have no opportunity to attain SMG's, LMGs or assault rifles unless they pick them off the ground, and instead get panzershreks which in itself doesn't make a lot of sense.


Mind you, volksgrenadiers occupy the same class of soldier as soviet conscripts (why they're called conscripts I don't know. Every army features soldiers who would have been conscripted into service) yet at vet are some of the most durable infantry in the game and with the right commanders get the best general use grenade(s). Oh, and they can salvage wrecks for fuel.

They should have done this instead...

Volksgrenadiers- a military division that was unique for its unusually high frequency of automatic weaponry. In game they get none of this, have no opportunity to attain SMG's, LMGs or assault rifles unless they pick them off the ground, and instead get panzershreks which in itself doesn't make a lot of sense.



Not this...

Volksgrenadiers occupy the same class of soldier as soviet conscripts (why they're called conscripts I don't know. Every army features soldiers who would have been conscripted into service) yet at vet are some of the most durable infantry in the game and with the right commanders get the best general use grenade(s). Oh, and they can salvage wrecks for fuel.


It's just silly they can do this kind of things.

I would love for Volks to be like in COH1, MP40 upgrades and panzerfausts, maybe they could put schreck on Obers, make them either go for LMG34 or Panzerschreck... not both.

Edit:
Sturms need an overhaul too if this was the way, cant have two smg units in T1

There is a second unit in the USF that works with Rifleman the Rear Echelon, but with the nerf the Volley Fire had the RE is now a fighting position garisson nothing else.

First off the USF
This faction has the problem since it has one non doctrinal infantry unit, Riflemen, I see the attempted design to make rifles upgrade to anything, however this just promotes blobs of them to deal with threats.

you can blob 2 pgrens with shrecks+2 grens with lmgs just like you can blob 4 rifles (2 zooks+2 bars), I don't really see the difference