USF Cost of Lieutenant vs effectiveness

Yes,plz nerf because ost can't counter 6 man squads with moving 1919 and 28 reinforce.Nerf obers and shocks as well if u feel like keeping the field equal.Less reinforce than grens for a squad with moving 1919s is unacceptable.

1919 dps is fine, double 1919 shooting on the move with thrice less accuracy than lmg34.

reinforce price is fine as long as thin unit doctrinal and have 1.0 received accuracy instead of deserved 0.83. Deal with it.

P.S. 380/6/2 = 31.6, so real reinforce price isn't much more than current 28.

Do you know there's some other faction which teching doesn't give you anything except access to certain units.

It's weird isn't it?


For every thread complaining about the US Officers being useless and taking up pop cap there's another complaining that no other faction gets free units for teching.

For every thread complaining about the US Officers being useless and taking up pop cap there's another complaining that no other faction gets free units for teching.

1919 dps is fine, double 1919 shooting on the move with thrice less accuracy than lmg34.

reinforce price is fine as long as thin unit doctrinal and have 1.0 received accuracy instead of deserved 0.83. Deal with it.

P.S. 380/6/2 = 31.6, so real reinforce price isn't much more than current 28.

YOu don't have an argument so you bring up obers at every chance?Ost has simply NO answer ,deal with it.
.83 with 6 men ..yes great.Then how do you explain kind sir panzergrenadier reinforce at 42 MP?

It's weird isn't it?


For every thread complaining about the US Officers being useless and taking up pop cap there's another complaining that no other faction gets free units for teching.

Eliminate popcap altogether,but make them purchase officers.Nerfs earlygame,buffs lategame automatically.

Nerf obers and shocks

Leave shocks alone. Do you realize that sov infantry cant compete past the 10 min mark? That why soo many are going double, even triple snipers.

SAme goes for usf. OKW infantry outclass them past a certain point. So u have to pray that the scott gets some whipes. Not to mention they dont have any non-doc arty. So if OKW camps. There isnt much u can do.

Vs ost its a problem against heavy armor, USF struggles against tiger callins. And if you know how to use lmg grens with a halftrack. the usf player would bleed way more than you.

The only real issue, is the m20 for ost, If u can postion ur grens properly with a halftrack. u will win. U should have a pak shortly after.

Leave shocks alone. Do you realize that sov infantry cant compete past the 10 min mark? That why soo many are going double, even triple snipers.

SAme goes for usf. OKW infantry outclass them past a certain point. So u have to pray that the scott gets some whipes. Not to mention they dont have any non-doc arty. So if OKW camps. There isnt much u can do.

Vs ost its a problem against heavy armor, USF struggles against tiger callins. And if you know how to use lmg grens with a halftrack. the usf player would bleed way more than you.

The only real issue, is the m20 for ost, If u can postion ur grens properly with a halftrack. u will win. U should have a pak shortly after.

Fine,but then give ost options vs enemy elite infantry.Can't be that all 3 other factions enjoying the juice while ost is starved intentionally.Either nerf elite infantry of the other 3 ,or give us the option.U know as well as i do LMG grens don't cut it vs paras,1919 or shocks.Panzergrenadiers don't have to win against shocks,but they shouldn't be a ROFLSTOMP and they certainly shouldn't cost 42 reinforce...they are self-squadwipe specialists as it is.

Fine,but then give ost options vs enemy elite infantry.Can't be that all 3 other factions enjoying the juice while ost is starved intentionally.Either nerf elite infantry of the other 3 ,or give us the option.U know as well as i do LMG grens don't cut it vs paras,1919 or shocks.Panzergrenadiers don't have to win against shocks,but they shouldn't be a ROFLSTOMP and they certainly shouldn't cost 42 reinforce...they are self-squadwipe specialists as it is.

I dont know what you mean..

USF only has paras

Sov have shocks ( i dont even consider guards elite, they are soo shit)

OKW has falls and obers

Wehr has pgrens

Like OKW, ost has non-doc elite infantry, Sov and usf dont. If you ask me. all factions should get non-doc elite infantry. Not to mention how good lmg grens scale vs all allied infantry.

You have to get off the m1919's

They are not as "effective" as you are trying to make them seem

LMG 42 and 34's are far FAR better

Rifle reinforce is lesser than gren,and far lesser than pzgren and they are rarely wiped without lucky rifle nade.That i was talking abt in late game.Double bars lategame is not much problem.A good investment on vetted squads.
They will fire and stand as long as ur not firing nade,when ur model does kneel animation to fire,they will move away for a sec.Didn't u know?

Ok so in one hand you say not a problem late game. And good on Vetted squads. So that Vet 2 10% cooldown all of a sudden makes Rifles with double BARs killing Machines? Because you wont see Vet 3 where Rifles get their combat bonus until late game. Unlike almost EVERY OTHER infantry that gets it at Vet 2 which allows Vet 3 to be common mid game....

I wont be the dead horse about how Manpower cost is divided by model count so no they arent cheaper to reinforce from 1 Model. Or the cost of the BAR upgrade as well as the 120 Muni (let alone the nade upgrade cost if you bothered with it)

I dont know what you mean..

USF only has paras

Sov have shocks ( i dont even consider guards elite, they are soo shit)

OKW has falls and obers

Wehr has pgrens

Like OKW, ost has non-doc elite infantry, Sov and usf dont. If you ask me. all factions should get non-doc elite infantry. Not to mention how good lmg grens scale vs all allied infantry.

You have to get off the m1919's

They are not as "effective" as you are trying to make them seem

LMG 42 and 34's are far FAR better

Do you not feel ashamed my friend putting papergrens in the same sentence with.Shocks,obers and paras?
How often do you face 1919s as ostheer infantry,come do it more often and be enlightened.

Ok so in one hand you say not a problem late game. And good on Vetted squads. So that Vet 2 10% cooldown all of a sudden makes Rifles with double BARs killing Machines? Because you wont see Vet 3 where Rifles get their combat bonus until late game. Unlike almost EVERY OTHER infantry that gets it at Vet 2 which allows Vet 3 to be common mid game....

I wont be the dead horse about how Manpower cost is divided by model count so no they arent cheaper to reinforce from 1 Model. Or the cost of the BAR upgrade as well as the 120 Muni (let alone the nade upgrade cost if you bothered with it)

What i meant is getting double bars on a rifle in lategame is not a impassable munition scarcity problem since usf rarely if ever use mines/bunkers.Not that they are not a problem to beat,which they definitely are.And i'm ok with that,usf infantry can be a bit better -design.And they also invested more.My problem is i just have no options save grenadiers at all.

Well the manpower per model thing doesn't work AT ALL when it comes to pzgrenadiers.Its incomprehensible given the performance disparity between pzgrens,shock and paras how one is 42.Second is 34 and third 28.2nd and third have 2 more models for massive survivability.Second one also has 1.5 armor.
All first one has is pathetic .87 recieved accuracy..like what dodge 1 in 10 shots.Give me a break.
Plz just stop condescending papergrenadiers and remove this stupid recieved accuracy which relic oh so thoughtfully renerfed again just a few patches back and say once and for all,we do not want pzgrens to be used in any major way because they are 'terminators'.Or just remove the AI version altogether and make it a dedicated tank buster,thats its only use anyway.Stop with the paltry excuses.Flanking,cover,range etc etc.Been there ,done that.
If it was really just about method of use you would see this unit used far more in AI role in tourney and pro replays.Do you see it?DO YOU?answer speaks for itself.

Do you not feel ashamed my friend putting papergrens in the same sentence with.Shocks,obers and paras?
How often do you face 1919s as ostheer infantry,come do it more often and be enlightened.

Ok i get it. someone outplayed you with para's using m1919's

So you come here to rage

Ok i get it. someone outplayed you with para's using m1919's

So you come here to rage

Nah,i just want to know why panzergrenadiers cost 42 reinforce while paras 28.Why shocks 34?

Why soviet can use shocks with cons.
OKW can use obers with volks.
USF can use paras with rifles.

But i can't use pzgrens with grens.Why the discrimination?
How much of a terminator was the panzergrenadier that they had to renerf it a few patches ago,for lol what?

Why 42 vs 34 vs 28,even though other 2 perform waay better and waay more survivable.
If u have answers,plz fire away.Its not rage,its frustration bro.
Frustration of being unable to use any other infantry unit for the last 6 months when playing ost than poor old grens.But you wouldn't know since ur happy rollin with shocks.

Faction design.

Unfortunately, crap and biased design if you ask me...

What i meant is getting double bars on a rifle in lategame is not a impassable munition scarcity problem since usf rarely if ever use mines/bunkers.Not that they are not a problem to beat,which they definitely are.And i'm ok with that,usf infantry can be a bit better -design.And they also invested more.My problem is i just have no options save grenadiers at all.

Well the manpower per model thing doesn't work AT ALL when it comes to pzgrenadiers.Its incomprehensible given the performance disparity between pzgrens,shock and paras how one is 42.Second is 34 and third 28.2nd and third have 2 more models for massive survivability.Second one also has 1.5 armor.
All first one has is pathetic .87 recieved accuracy..like what dodge 1 in 10 shots.Give me a break.
Plz just stop condescending papergrenadiers and remove this stupid recieved accuracy which relic oh so thoughtfully renerfed again just a few patches back and say once and for all,we do not want pzgrens to be used in any major way because they are 'terminators'.Or just remove the AI version altogether and make it a dedicated tank buster,thats its only use anyway.Stop with the paltry excuses.Flanking,cover,range etc etc.Been there ,done that.
If it was really just about method of use you would see this unit used far more in AI role in tourney and pro replays.Do you see it?DO YOU?answer speaks for itself.

I see. Pgrens are a timing problem really. Sturmpios do just fine and they arent even as good as Pgrens. Pgrens hit the field pretty late for their effectiveness now and this is the era of LONG RANGE DPS ALWAYS WINS! And they arent long range DPS.

I dont think a rebalance of Pgrens would hurt. Better surviability and lower DPS for example (because their DPS is damn damn good) or maybe better DPS at long? Even just better surviability and a higher cost? Not sure really. But they arent that great and are very situational for their timing and cost. I agree.

@OP

I agree officers in General are wonky. One one hand I dont want to feed my opponent Vet on the other hand I dont want to keep them around sucking down Pop cap. Would be nice if it was an option like when you rebuild them rather than free with Tech. I think that would solve alot of problems actually.

Nah,i just want to know why panzergrenadiers cost 42 reinforce while paras 28.Why shocks 34?

Why soviet can use shocks with cons.
OKW can use obers with volks.
USF can use paras with rifles.

But i can't use pzgrens with grens.Why the discrimination?
How much of a terminator was the panzergrenadier that they had to renerf it a few patches ago,for lol what?

Why 42 vs 34 vs 28,even though other 2 perform waay better and waay more survivable.
If u have answers,plz fire away.Its not rage,its frustration bro.
Frustration of being unable to use any other infantry unit for the last 6 months when playing ost than poor old grens.But you wouldn't know since ur happy rollin with shocks.

Ok i see ur point...

bare in mind paras are a 6 man unit Keep the cost the same

As for pgrens mabey decrease the reinforce to 40 or 38

Everyone know that Ost has glaring issues against USF. I personally think its in the tech cost.

If u increase para reinforce cost. then they wont be used.

In all honesty the only elite inf i ever have trouble with is obers.

Shocks get rekt when focused

Paras need to be heavily supported to be effective

Pgrens can be good if supported

But obers.. LOL these bastards can go to a part of the map by themselves and fight off literally all allied infantry.

Ok i see ur point...

bare in mind paras are a 6 man unit Keep the cost the same

As for pgrens mabey decrease the reinforce to 40 or 38

Everyone know that Ost has glaring issues against USF. I personally think its in the tech cost.

If u increase para reinforce cost. then they wont be used.

In all honesty the only elite inf i ever have trouble with is obers.

Shocks get rekt when focused

Paras need to be heavily supported to be effective

Pgrens can be good if supported

But obers.. LOL these bastards can go to a part of the map by themselves and fight off literally all allied infantry.

You think anyone will use pzgrens at 40 or 38 reinforce,when it just costs 50 mp less than shocks?and has 2 less members and no iron 1.5 armor?thing loses 25% of its DPS with one model.It has negligible recieved accuracy(the 1 in 10 shots is actually a farce mostly)
It doesn't have smoke like shocks.
You say shocks get wrecked when focused,do you know what happens when papergrens get focused ?
Agreed they CAN be good if supported.And here is the main problem,when i'm delaing with multiple infantry units MP crunch is a real issue.A 28 reinforce uunit is far more sustainable than a 42 reinforce one.
Obers are beast,don't dispute that at all.But allies cry a bit more because its the only axis infantry they can't steamroll which they are used to doing.

Shocks= Short range unit

But allies cry a bit more because its the only axis infantry they can't steamroll which they are used to doing.

Axis players cry when they cant use their overpowering units effectively.

I guess an ifrantry unit that can snipe support weapons from the front is "ok"

and baseline infantry with shreks that can counter their own counter

But when my jackson cant penetrate a vet panther after 4 shots...

Axis players say learn to flank..

So im going to give u the same "advice"

Learn how to position ur overperforming units

Axis players say learn to flank..

Love this one. Yes YESSSSSS flank. Hit that side armor! HIT IT! Oh...wait...you mean Encircle!

Edit:

Disclaimer if you dont already know side armor doesnt exist in this game...