OKW rework story

Hi,
Here is my idea of OKW rework:

Resources:

Fuel income: 66%
Amo income: 66%
Salvage bonus: from 5 fuel to 2 fuel. In case of scavange doctrine, 2 fuel + 5 amo.
Pioneers can build now observation posts (vCoh style). Observation Post cost: (250 mp/300 mp – feel free to discuss). While having the same effect as caches, they cost more and they will provide a slightly increased sight range.
Effects: this will reduce manpower stockpiling and indirectly reducing blob build phenomenon. OKW player will be tempted to build at least 1 OP. Exclusive builder unit should be sturmpioneers – they are more expensive (both in requisition cost and reinforcement cost) and takes longer to reinforce, not so easily spamable, and they are effective combat units, so while building caches they will be out of combat (their overall fighting contribution would be lowered). OKW player will have to chose weather he will adopt a strategy based on amo supply or fuel supply increase (not really increase of course, rather compensating handicap trial, but that will cost mp), or stay with the current resources income.
In startgame, OKW player will be obliged to rely on at least one raketenwerfer due to the amo shortage that won’t allow him to build enough schrecks. If he wants to go on “schreck blob” way, this will cost him manpower also (he will need amo observation posts).

Units:

Lower KT and Jagdtiger rear armor (values are debatable, feel free to discuss). This way, flanking would be rewarded more.
Kubelwagen – stays the same, but a cost of 10 fuel will be added. This way, because every fuel drop is important, OKW player will have to be extremely cautious with it, most probably unit will be build once per game and the “kubel spam” phenomenon will be greatly reduced. Penalty for losing it will be higher.
OKW trucks (undeployed) – Stay the same but now the damage received while undeployed will stay the same after the truck is deployed (this will eliminate truck pushing “tactic”). No one will like to have a brand new half-health deployed truck.
Booby-trapping can now be done just by Obersoldaten.

Tiers:
OKW T2 truck will be able to lock territory (T2 = the building with jagdpanzer and searchlight). This way, an aggressive or good placement (protecting owner’s cutoff or locking opponent cutoff) will be as well rewarding but riscky all the same because it will draw all attacks upon it. Can be placed on any point on the map, it will not provide an increased resources income, it will just lock that point. The locked maped point cannot be taken if truck is not destroyed.
Converting T2 into a retreat point costs now 200 mp.

While not affecting so much 1v1 games, this changes may affect the 3v3 and 4v4 games by offerring a different perspective on OKW and bringing some balance maybe. Decisions for OKW player will be harder to make and if wrong, more costly. The manpower reserve scalling of OKW will be tempered through build of OPs wich will not give a real advantage but rather will reduce the resources handicap.

Now shoot.

You forgot to remove Volk's rifles and make them fight only with Hitler Jugend knives. They should spawn with a random number of knives to represent weapon shortages.

All seems reasonable to me, good suggestions. I think this would scale up quite well for 3v3 and 4v4. I do agree that the Kubel needs a fuel cost but I do still think the USF should get a .30cal or .50cal jeep from 0cp with the same fuel cost.

You forgot to add that the Jagdtiger and Kingtiger should have random immobilize and engine criticals to represent their bad reliability they had throughout the war.

Doesn't sound too bad at all. The kubel suggestion is good though and it has been discussed a lot. Either nerf it a bit or give it fuel cost, maybe a small range decrease would be enough for the nerf.

And the concept of units shooting through houses is just ridiculous, that "feature" should be removed (Wehrmacht PaK 43, OKW Jagdtiger). Does the elephant do that too?

IMO these are the biggest dull things about the faction besides schreck blobs. But one can only do so much about the blobs, it seems like it's the way people choose to play for some reason.

You forgot to remove Volk's rifles and make them fight only with Hitler Jugend knives. They should spawn with a random number of knives to represent weapon shortages.

Hey man, don't need to be sarcastic. I really love OKW faction, but at this point there are to many people complaining about it. Of course I think they aren't necessarely right, but when just you and me are thinking that there's nothing wrong with OKW and everybody else think there is, it will be nothing much to do but to try to re-think the faction at its base taking care not to hurt it to much.
Of course what I wrote here can be modified to whatever extent (amo, mp, even fuel costs and incomes), I would even make the built OKW OPs more durable and difficult to destroy than regular caches, maybe providing a slight higher resource bonus, but I would like to keep the base idea.

I like it

I think it would be better to nurf the kubel, instead of adding a fuel cost

honestly just reduce fuel and munition income to 66%

nurf kubel

and we are good


Fighting okw is such a bitch when playing with USF

You need to be soo carful of ur tech choices. Playing usf is too unforgiving.

If you dont counter kubel fast ur in trouble. U try to counter by going t2. if the rush t3 and get puma THATS GG

If they fast tech to flak HQ and u dont have at guns or kill it while setting up. thats ALMOST GG

Usf are too preditable also. the captain luetenient and major reveal your teching. This is awful faction design

If im against usf i know

Captain= fallshirjeagers

Luetenient= fast tech to t2

Not to mention if they tech for early nades thats gg if usf doesnt have fuel advantage.

Does the Jagdtiger even need a lower rear armor? Isn't it like 150, just like the elephant and ISU152? If I remember correctly only the front armor of the Jagdtiger is very high (525?).

lol

..wtf?=

You forgot to remove Volk's rifles and make them fight only with Hitler Jugend knives. They should spawn with a random number of knives to represent weapon shortages.

+1

OKW is fine as it is, no need for a rework

Hi,
Here is my idea of OKW rework:

Resources:

Fuel income: 66%
Amo income: 66%
Salvage bonus: from 5 fuel to 2 fuel. In case of scavange doctrine, 2 fuel + 5 amo.
Pioneers can build now observation posts (vCoh style). Observation Post cost: (250 mp/300 mp – feel free to discuss). While having the same effect as caches, they cost more and they will provide a slightly increased sight range.
Effects: this will reduce manpower stockpiling and indirectly reducing blob build phenomenon. OKW player will be tempted to build at least 1 OP. Exclusive builder unit should be sturmpioneers – they are more expensive (both in requisition cost and reinforcement cost) and takes longer to reinforce, not so easily spamable, and they are effective combat units, so while building caches they will be out of combat (their overall fighting contribution would be lowered). OKW player will have to chose weather he will adopt a strategy based on amo supply or fuel supply increase (not really increase of course, rather compensating handicap trial, but that will cost mp), or stay with the current resources income.
In startgame, OKW player will be obliged to rely on at least one raketenwerfer due to the amo shortage that won’t allow him to build enough schrecks. If he wants to go on “schreck blob” way, this will cost him manpower also (he will need amo observation posts).

Units:

Lower KT and Jagdtiger rear armor (values are debatable, feel free to discuss). This way, flanking would be rewarded more.
Kubelwagen – stays the same, but a cost of 10 fuel will be added. This way, because every fuel drop is important, OKW player will have to be extremely cautious with it, most probably unit will be build once per game and the “kubel spam” phenomenon will be greatly reduced. Penalty for losing it will be higher.
OKW trucks (undeployed) – Stay the same but now the damage received while undeployed will stay the same after the truck is deployed (this will eliminate truck pushing “tactic”). No one will like to have a brand new half-health deployed truck.
Booby-trapping can now be done just by Obersoldaten.

Tiers:
OKW T2 truck will be able to lock territory (T2 = the building with jagdpanzer and searchlight). This way, an aggressive or good placement (protecting owner’s cutoff or locking opponent cutoff) will be as well rewarding but riscky all the same because it will draw all attacks upon it. Can be placed on any point on the map, it will not provide an increased resources income, it will just lock that point. The locked maped point cannot be taken if truck is not destroyed.
Converting T2 into a retreat point costs now 200 mp.

While not affecting so much 1v1 games, this changes may affect the 3v3 and 4v4 games by offerring a different perspective on OKW and bringing some balance maybe. Decisions for OKW player will be harder to make and if wrong, more costly. The manpower reserve scalling of OKW will be tempered through build of OPs wich will not give a real advantage but rather will reduce the resources handicap.

Now shoot.

It is working as designed. Which shows you the problem is with the designers, not the faction.

Observation posts: At first i didn't like the idea of caches, but they offer additional choice, so i think i'm okay with that.

Salvage bonus: 2 fuel is a laughable small amount. If there is any change to salvage, it should be a higher amount.

Lower KT and Jagdtiger rear armor: KT is fine in my book - it can be outranged and countered by tank destroyers and AT guns. Jagdtiger is not fine in 2v2+ and needs more rework e.g. reduce range to 70 or tie the ability to shoot trough buildings to an ability (while slightly lowering the price so it stays somewhat attractive in 1v1).

Kubelwagen 10 fuel: It is currently warranted, but i would rather see a buff to units that supposedly should counter it like the Bazooka and M2 HMG first.

OKW trucks damage received while undeployed will stay the same after the truck is deployed: Definitely yes. Additionally trucks shouldn't be able to crush buildings - the ability to "terraform" maps in 1v1 can be quite strong.

Not a fan of locking down territory with trucks - some maps are not made for that. Think of the super large territory at the middle VPs on langres for example and how easy it is to safely lock it down.

There wont be any balance in large teamgames as long as one faction has super tanks (Jagdtiger) that effortlessly counters every other non-super tank (US) - IF there is enough fuel available. And in the late game, especially with enough fuel caches, it always is.

There are two reasons why you may see many Panzerschreck blobs:

1. You are basically forced to get at least some Volksgrenadier squads in the early game, but you cannot upgrade them in any other way than buying Panzerschrecks to make them remain more useful in the late game.
2. OKW doesn't have that many options to spend their munition on otherwise, especially if you didn't go for the T3 building for the munition into fuel transfer ability. Heck, I wish I could actually spend my munition on a more expensive Teller mine, but I don't get the option.

America and Ostheer spend their munition on relatively manpower-cheap units to make them scale for the late game, but OKW doesn't have that option. Instead they buy manpower-expensive units in late game which however don't cost munition. This obviously leaves a lot of munition free for other use for OKW, and so they can afford many Panzerschrecks even though buying two individual Panzerschrecks is actually more expensive than a dualpack for Ostheer. OKW's other abilities are also not really cheaper than other factions' abilities, with Infiltration Grenades being the only exception that I could think of now. Their commander abilities are often actually fairly expensive and some are not very useful.

Soviets with some strategies that rely on stuff like Snipers or Shock Troops have the same excess of munition, so they spam it on commander abilities like flame bombs instead as you can see especially in team games, yet I have never seen anyone calling for a nerf of Soviet munition income because of that.

The salvage ability nerf is ridiculous, it is not even worth spending the time for just 2 fuel. You will need to salvage 35 wrecks just to afford a single Puma after your suggestion.

OKW's lack of early anti-garrison necessitates the sWs's building crush. Without it, Semois is probably unplayable and would definitely auto-lose against Soviet FHQ. The only thing that really needs fixing is the insta-crit on buildings like Faymonville.

OKW's lack of early anti-garrison necessitates the sWs's building crush. Without it, Semois is probably unplayable and would definitely auto-lose against Soviet FHQ. The only thing that really needs fixing is the insta-crit on buildings like Faymonville.

Bad example, you can't get a FHQ up as soviets on semois because OKW will have base pinned you before you can even take your cut-off. If you get an M3 first, the FHQ will be late enough that OKW has anti-garrison on the field.

if okw could build observational posts theyd put their truck next to a key resource point, put a post on it, then put their t4 building next to it. Thats some way over the top locking down power

66% munitions income would be ridiculous, they just had their muntion income moved down to 80%, and from the few times ive played them i feel like their munitions spending power is about right. They cant just buy all the upgrades they want or throw all the grenades they want.

fuel income was probably too much before they changed munitions to be 80%, but now that they have less munitions to hold up their army until they get the panther they have to spend fuel on more P2s and pumas to keep in the game (which delays their larger tanks)

Honestly most people complaining about OKW are scrubs or 4v4 players.

They are perfectly beatable in 1v1 and 2v2.
I see so many people complaining about OKW heavies , and yet they are so easily beatable - people just dont know how (again talking about 2v2/1v1). I saw so many streams already where people had like 4-5 tanks and did not go in for the heavies that were not even properly supported and then are surprised they dont penetrate their frontal armor.

Im really getting sick of it.

Honestly most people complaining about OKW are scrubs or 4v4 players.

They are perfectly beatable in 1v1 and 2v2.
I see so many people complaining about OKW heavies , and yet they are so easily beatable - people just dont know how (again talking about 2v2/1v1). I saw so many streams already where people had like 4-5 tanks and did not go in for the heavies that were not even properly supported and then are surprised they dont penetrate their frontal armor.

Im really getting sick of it.

Lol, can't agree more. I would realy like to shout a big L2P in their faces but that's not the way to go. Changing OKW base build (not necesarely in the described way) can be a solution. Maybe.