Simple answer as to whether a unit is OP or not.
29 Sep 2014, 12:58 PM
#21
Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21
I like to take it in strides. The "OP" Era ended after the March Deployment was patched. I now consider everything to be either "very effective", "very useless", "very average", or "very Relic"(which I give out rarely). This patch I would say the U.S. faction is very much so in the useless department, Ostheer in the very average, as well as the soviet faction, and OKW in the very Relic department. I'mma describe this patch's balance with generalizations instead of listing specific items of interest, because honestly, we all know what those are(well most of us anyway, excluding the fanbois). Generally the late game is pretty messed up, early game a map control contest slated to whoever can cheese the most out of their faction(or abuse if you like that term), and mid-game circle-jerk to be King of The Deploying Heavy Armor the quickest/getting dat elite infantry out on the field(including allies, ya kno, vet 3 shocks, vet 3 flamer rifles, vet 3 lmg grens, obers, etc etc). So, all in all I would say, the best way to determine balance is not to ask yourself the obvious, but pretend you're PQ figuring out how to make sure a faction has fair-game during the current patch release.
29 Sep 2014, 13:11 PM
#22
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
So, all in all I would say, the best way to determine balance is not to ask yourself the obvious, but pretend you're PQ figuring out how to make sure a faction has fair-game during the current patch release.
I will take myself a liberty of saying that this approach, since the release of WFA would create only that much more axis fanboys
29 Sep 2014, 13:48 PM
#23
Posts: 304
I'm of the school of thought that there is no such thing as an 'OP Unit' in strategy games. A unit cannot be unbalanced, only a faction can be unbalanced (Credit to Sandy (?) from Ensemble Studios circa AoEIII).
Because of this, I think the this topic is flawed. You can change units to better balance a faction, but I don't think that any single unit can be considered 'OP' in a vacuum the way it's been suggested.
Because of this, I think the this topic is flawed. You can change units to better balance a faction, but I don't think that any single unit can be considered 'OP' in a vacuum the way it's been suggested.
29 Sep 2014, 14:23 PM
#24
Posts: 2742
Balancing via the spreadsheet tends to lead to what we have today in CoH2.
29 Sep 2014, 21:25 PM
#25
Posts: 12
I'm of the school of thought that there is no such thing as an 'OP Unit' in strategy games. A unit cannot be unbalanced, only a faction can be unbalanced (Credit to Sandy (?) from Ensemble Studios circa AoEIII).
Because of this, I think the this topic is flawed. You can change units to better balance a faction, but I don't think that any single unit can be considered 'OP' in a vacuum the way it's been suggested.
Sure you can. A simple example:
Give the kubelwagon to the usa - Its OP.
Give the kubelwagon to the soviets - Its OP.
Give the kubelwagon to the wermacht - Its OP.
Give the kuelwagon to the OKW - Its OP.
The factor of note here is not the faction the kubelwagon is in, but is the unit itself. If the use of the kubelwagon offends, then pretend a unit is introduced called BIG THING 2000 which would be OP whatever the faction.
Certainly considering the unit in the context of the faction it is produced by is wise, and the synergy of the forces around it may promote some seemingly innocuous unit to overpowerd. But there are some units that would pass the OP test whatever faction they would be used with. The old soviet 120mm 'god' mortar was OP whatever faction might have had it. Similarly the (pre hotfix) boosted Katushka would be OP whatever faction it was on (and to the same extent the Kat was OP then, the walking stuka is now).
There is a long list of these units which eventually get nerfed. Many factors were considered, but the common denominator was that the faction who owned it would have hated the enemy factions to have it. Which was the point of my OP and one that seems self evident to the impassionate reader without an agenda.
30 Sep 2014, 00:50 AM
#26
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
Sure you can. A simple example:
Give the kubelwagon to the usa - Its OP.
Give the kubelwagon to the soviets - Its OP.
Give the kubelwagon to the wermacht - Its OP.
Give the kuelwagon to the OKW - Its OP
There is a long list of these units which eventually get nerfed. Many factors were considered, but the common denominator was that the faction who owned it would have hated the enemy factions to have it. Which was the point of my OP and one that seems self evident to the impassionate reader without an agenda.
Actually the US Forces have a vulnerability against the Kübelwagen for the first 5 minutes of the game. Every other faction can decently deal with the Kübel, thus it's not op but the other us is UP against a Kübel start.
Furthermore you have to check the unit synergy of the complete faction for your rather foolish definition of the OPness. Unit a might be OK in faction a but can become batshit insane op in a other faction.
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