It's time to nerf OKW late game

Haven't played the game in a while but if I remember correctly, OKW late game in 1v1s and 2v2s was only slightly better than the other faction's.

Proper use of mining shuts down OKW heavy tanks completely.

Haven't played the game in a while but if I remember correctly, OKW late game in 1v1s and 2v2s was only slightly better than the other faction's.

Proper use of mining shuts down OKW heavy tanks completely.

Good luck mining a Jagdpanther that sits behind an obstacle.

Haven't played the game in a while but if I remember correctly, OKW late game in 1v1s and 2v2s was only slightly better than the other faction's.

Proper use of mining shuts down OKW heavy tanks completely.

OKW got minesweepers and in addition they add extra repair time bonus to Sturm pioneers. What is preventing OKW player from keeping 1 Sturm pioneer on minesweeper duty, scouting ever so slightly ahead of their tank?

Finally a thread that is constructive on the issue of 3v3s and 4v4s. That infact analyses what people say...

1v1&2v2 OK / who plays?? -> Pro's and Team's
3v3&4v4 NOT OK / who plays?? -> average gamer


Now people complained about KTs and other strong units and I have to say... Watch the DeveloperVideos they will state that the OKW was desiged to be a "small and specialised force" (example no medium tanks) and the US "a mobile force that will bend but not break". From a developer point of view (my personal impression) the factions work as they should and are balanced since the numbers in the top100 suggest so. Thats where it gets tricky...


StephennJF explained how to kill a KT.

Doable for "above average" Gamer -> Yes
Doable for "average" Gamer -> Maybe (rather no)
Doable for "Noob" -> NO (Sending KT with AttackMove across the map YES)

The main problem I guess is the difficulty or plain and simple the apm (actions/minute) it takes to controll an army effectively.

For all of you people who now will say -> L2P
People have a certain limit of skill with a certain time investment... if you can afford to play alot you will be better but if you can't, you will suck at least with a apm intesive army (more units -> Allies).

I acctially will stop with the listing of facts or impressions from this thread since i have to get up today^^

Conclusion:

Great Game. Balanced. APM Intensive.

The "pro" player will enjoy this game because it is fun, fair and has a competetive nature.

The casuall player will enjoy the game to a certain extend and this would be the single player, since if you want to play in multiplayer with the allied factions you will need a better micro and more micro = more apm = more time and as we all know time is money. With the point time we are at a crucial marketing strategy point in many MMORPGs (WoW). It might sound disturbing for people to compare a RTS to a MMO but it is only the time factor that is relevant. Blizzard already has done the transishion over to the user who wants to sit down for 1-2h play a few games and go out. Steam as well -> SteamApp. Further on Relic/Sega also reflect the position that the true potential of this game for the average customer (biggest group with the most money) doesn't lie with in the multiplayer by bringing us a whole new campaign...(ObserverMode, where are you??)


(Long Version for Campaign: Relic has investet more time and most important, more MONEY to produce an extensive single player content with a rpg nature and a permadeath option. Which obsviously should cover development and ongoing costs.)

Hope you enjoyed that what ever^^

and dont haunt me on my spelling XD

While i disagree that "average gamers" are the only ones that play 4v4, and "pros" and "teams" only play 1v1 and 2v2, i agree that Allies generally require more APM. You are throwing out a lot of generalizations in your statement.

Now in my opinion, to fully use the Allies strength (mobility, aggressiveness, flanking), requires more micro and APM than Axis. ALlied units are generally more fragile, weaker, and do less damage. In order to play them well (at least in 4v4), one must always be attentive, and utitlize the units in the most optimal way. This may be why players struggle with Allies in larger games. More units, allied and friendly = more micro and attention = more difficult game.

On the other hand, imho, Axis require less micro, and APM, due to higher pop costs, resources, etc. You won't be able to field as many units as an Allied, in the early game at least.

Now theoretically, this all seems balanced. Smaller squad sizes and less units, but better units vs more numerous, but weaker units. Now i think here lies the problem. In order to perform as well as an Axis player, an Allied player requires MORE MICRO. Perhaps this is achievable by "pros" and people with a lot of time to practice, but not your average gamer (can only play a couple games a day/week).

This really manifests itself in team games. A smaller, stronger Axis team destroys an Allied team. Although Axis late game, especially their heavy tanks have theoretical weaknesses, the exploitation of these weaknesses require more micro and attention from your average allied player. The combination of stronger and durable units + powerful tanks + less micro = easier time for players who play Axis

OKW late game is fine, muricas to weak

umm. as much as i want USF to be able to stand up to OKW's late game, i don't want two out of four factions to have vaporizing anti inf/tank capabilities late game.

Absolutely not, if anything the OKW needs to be buffed since they get completely wrecked by Russians and US players at all stages of the game. I just played about 7 matches I believe and I lost all of them except one. I was in the top 10 for 2v2 ranked a few months ago for perspective, and I was in the top 40 before I lost these handful of matches.

With that being said, it's blatantly obvious that i'm not a casual CoH player nor a noob, yet I lost 400+ ranks with an "op" faction.


Playing as OKW is a constant uphill battle and even at late game, the OKW are at a serious disadvantage. To start, let's talk about the Kubel or "konigs Kubel" as people like to say. Do you guys realise that even with a sturm pioneer protecting it, an M3 can still easily destroy it? I lost all of my Kubels in the 6 games I played solely because of the M3. People are really overestimating the Kubel to be honest, and I only hope Relic restores the Kubel to when it actually served a purpose and was useful(Last patch).

Shock troops are also better than Volks and Obersoldatens especially late game. Shocks are basically the only infantry that constantly go toe to toe with my Obersoldatens and win, so Relic needs to think about either buffing the Obers or nerfing Shock troops, because currently it's a joke how Shock troops are the best infantry in the game and can easily kill Obersoldatens. I'm not a bad player and I know what to do and how units work, so you know i'm not biased when stating these facts.

If we think about this logically, the Russians have much better units than the OKW and they get even stronger as the game progresses. The same is for the Americans but they're even better than the Russians since they have the priest artillery. If there's one unit that I can blame my losses on, it's the priest artillery; it's incredibly powerful(Too strong for its price) and has extremely accurate barrages.

Here's what needs to happen in order for OKW to be relevant and balanced again:

1)Buff Volks or nerf Russian and US infantry:
This is pretty straight forward so a complex paragraph isn't needed; OKW infantry are much weaker than US and Russian infantry, so OKW needs a buff or the enemy needs a nerf. It's also a fact that German infantry in WW2 were much better than Russian or American infantry, so the change would also be historically accurate.

2)Buff OKW vehicles:

The OKW has nice vehicles but they've been nerfed to the ground with these recent balance patches and can't stand up to Russian or US armour. I think a good solution to OKW armour balance is to reduce the fuel cost of the Puma by 30, the Luchs by 20 and the Stuka and KT by 40-50. Why buy a KT when the enemy can take it out with a few Jacksons? The Stuka is also a gamble and by that I mean it's a hit or miss. On one hand, if you do land a good barrage, it's fairly powerful and a potential game changer. On the other hand, if you miss a barrage then that 100 petrol and 400 manpower you spent on it becomes useless. Making the Stuka cost 50 petrol and 300 manpower would be best I believe for a balanced game.

3)Nerf the Priest artillery unit:

As I mentioned above, the priest artillery unit is an actual game changer. All of my losses against US players have been because of the Priest; it's too good for its price and absolutely wrecks any German infantry and light/medium vehicles. The damage output needs to be severely reduced, or the cost of the Priest increased substantially.

4)Buff Obersoldatens:
Admiteddly, this is definitely a more personal request for balance change. Obersoldatens are my favourite unit in the game, but it pains me to see them lose to Shocks every time and even conscripts and US rifles. Historically, elite German infantry were the best in WW2 and it's said that one elite German soldier is worth 30 US or Russian soldiers. Unfortunately, this isn't depicted in CoH2 even though this is supposed to be historically authentic to a certain degree. Relic essentially killed the OKW's late game and only anti-infantry option last patch, so what do we have now to counter Shocks and US rifles with LMG's? Nothing.


While I might be a bit angry from my losing streak(Went from being in the top40 to rank 600+ in an hour or so), it's clear that even a veteran CoH player like myself knows that balance is against OKW both late game and early game.

^ Not sure if really bad sense of humor/sarcasm or just generic axis player.

My credentials are good so my opinion regarding balance holds a fair amount of weight. I don't look at pure statistics like a lot of people do, but rather with my first hand experiences in-game. I've found that the OKW are definitely under powered, especially against Russians.

Ah, so lolcake legacy bearing, generic axis player.

Thanks for clarification.

REForever No just No that is just no nononononono.

Katitof, I play Allies as well so it's incorrect to call me a generic German player(What that means).

The USF faction in this game is Average at everthing. They excel only when they have the Jackson and a vet 1 At gun. But even then they can be steamrolled by a Blitzing Tiger or Panther. Axis has nothing to fear when they see the USF army. All abilities of the USF army are now niche abilities but even then they just dont fulfill their role (volley fire). You cant realy on nothing you have, beacuse everything you use will do average damage or will survive average damage. You can lose a team game with the enemy that is sleeping and awakes only to move the HMG, Kubel, or stuka. In the End you get something like GG easy peasy, That was easy, LOL you suck and OWNED. That some players have issues and need to react somewhere also doesnt help.

I don't think it's possible to read your post without thinking you're trolling or something like that.

So you're saying Volks are better than Rifles? Please look at the balance of this game from an objective viewpoint. The OKW are simply under powered since most of their units get wrecked by Russian and US units. For example, I lose Obersoldatens and Volks to conscripts and Shock Troops a lot of the time, and you're telling me that the OKW is OP? I know what directional cover is and I know how to play CoH(I have over 2000 hours of playtime in CoH1 ranked matches), so obviously it's a problem with the balance.

I just think that the OKW have been butchered to the point that Obersoldatens can't even stand up against Russian infantry. What am I supposed to use for anti-infantry? Sturm Tigers? Too expensive and takes too long to reload.

My credentials are good so my opinion regarding balance holds a fair amount of weight. I don't look at pure statistics like a lot of people do, but rather with my first hand experiences in-game. I've found that the OKW are definitely under powered, especially against Russians.

What planet do you live on?
or maybe you are playing a different patch to everyone else?

So you're saying Volks are better than Rifles? Please look at the balance of this game from an objective viewpoint. The OKW are simply under powered since most of their units get wrecked by Russian and US units. For example, I lose Obersoldatens and Volks to conscripts and Shock Troops a lot of the time, and you're telling me that the OKW is OP? I know what directional cover is and I know how to play CoH(I have over 2000 hours of playtime in CoH1 ranked matches), so obviously it's a problem with the balance.

I just think that the OKW have been butchered to the point that Obersoldatens can't even stand up against Russian infantry. What am I supposed to use for anti-infantry? Sturm Tigers? Too expensive and takes too long to reload.

Firstly. Does it look like the game is balanced around Volks beating Rifles? There MP cost says otherwise.
Secondly if you are losing Obers to shocks fair enough that is what happens when elite troops brawl, but even then obers have the upper-hand, but to Cons? clearly you are retarded.

Cleary 2000 Coh1 hours hasn't transitioned well.

Jorad claimed the US is average at everything, yet their infantry destroys German infantry and they have the best tank in the game that even out ranges the Jagdtiger.

I know how to play the game since not only was I in the top10 for CoH1 2v2 ranked, but I was in the top10 for CoH2 2v2 ranked a month or so ago. My skills from CoH transitioned fine, it's the balance that's responsible.

Conscripts actually do beat German infantry most of the time, and I would know since I constantly get beaten back by Conscripts and M3's.