Fix Mein Kübelwagen!

How can any of you say that you can be upset that the Kubelwagen can basically cover its own flank when a Maxim can do the exact same thing!

I'd rather the think get a fuel cost.

I'd rather the think get a fuel cost.

Can't happen, otherwise it would never be used.

Besides this, the OKW is a fuel starved faction and has no non-doctrinal MG options without the Kubelwagen, adding a fuel cost onto it would break balance.

Can't happen, otherwise it would never be used.

Why not? OKW starts with 40 fuel. You then can make the choice of teching or getting your light vehicle, just like everyone else.

Why not? OKW starts with 40 fuel. You then can make the choice of teching or getting your light vehicle, just like everyone else.

Except that "light vehicle" is the only non-doctrinal suppression platform that they have in early game. It is also instantly hard countered by an M3 or a Dodge, or really anyone with a braincell.


You're focusing too much on the idea of it being a vehicle rather than it being their only MG. Short of choosing a doctrine.

Kubels beat the maxim, at least my kubels always do. If a maxim gets in a building, i order a walking stuka and then my kubel continues reining supreme until tanks. Soviet T1 will counter a kubel well, but picking a tier to counter one unit is pretty sad...

And before one CP, a kubel will claim the middle VP's, and OKW can defend against a dodge from there. And picking a commander just to counter a unit is also pretty sad... Because USF indeed can do nothing otherwise if they pick something else.

Id rather there be an HMG than the Kübel. HMG's have been tested since vCoH existence. A mobile suppression platform right off the bat to me is naive design, and it is futile to balance something that should probably never been designed to begin with. HMG's also scale better than a Kubel.

Kubels beat the maxim, at least my kubels always do. If a maxim gets in a building, i order a walking stuka and then my kubel continues reining supreme until tanks. Soviet T1 will counter a kubel well, but picking a tier to counter one unit is pretty sad...

And before one CP, a kubel will claim the middle VP's, and OKW can defend against a dodge from there. And picking a commander just to counter a unit is also pretty sad... Because USF indeed can do nothing otherwise if they pick something else.

Id rather there be an HMG than the Kübel. HMG's have been tested since vCoH existence. A mobile suppression platform right off the bat to me is naive design, and it is futile to balance something that should probably never been designed to begin with. HMG's also scale better than a Kubel.

Technically speaking, OKW are obligated to pick a tier just to counter the Maxim spam that so many Soviets take a liking to.


I agree, I'd rather have the MG-34 teams with proper suppression put back onto them, but what are you gonna do? Kubels just don't scale well, and die with some focused rifle fire very quickly. Even a maxim will kill a Kubel very quickly.

Yes I do, do you?

No, you don't. If you had use the Kubel, you would know you can deal with M3 with Kubels. It doesn't allow mistakes (like taking early damage) or getting flanked. That is why you should check the enemy base for his teching.

Technically speaking, OKW are obligated to pick a tier just to counter the Maxim spam that so many Soviets take a liking to.


I agree, I'd rather have the MG-34 teams with proper suppression put back onto them, but what are you gonna do? Kubels just don't scale well, and die with some focused rifle fire very quickly. Even a maxim will kill a Kubel very quickly.

You make it sound like Soviets have so many strat choices and they only pick Maxim spam to annoy the opponents. Do you not think they have wanted and asked for different ways to play?

And anyway Maxims are borderline unusable thanks to the retreat bug. One flank by Sturms can now easily take it out if they decide to arbitrarily stop retreating.

I think the biggest problem is how forgiving the Kubel is. Thanks to its 190 HPs, 10 target size (smallest in the game IIRC), and highest acceleration/speed in the game, it's nigh impossible to kill apart with hard counters (M20/Stuart for US, AT gun or T-70/T-34 for Soviets). M3s are basically a coin flip, and dodge is doctrinal, 1 CP and almost always loses anyway. This is crap game design that doesn't belong in CoH2. And hell, I had an AT gun fire at it thrice and miss every time, it has like 40% chance to hit it which is nuts. And it doesn't even kill it in one shot!

I say: lower HP to 160, lower both speed and acceleration, and maybe add 0.5-1 sec to its setup time before it can suppress to you can react to its arrival. Increase armor when it's setup a little to compensate.

How can any of you say that you can be upset that the Kubelwagen can basically cover its own flank when a Maxim can do the exact same thing!

if you can't take on maxim with two units, its your fault sorry.

Sierra pls go screw up some other thread with your obvious troll bait responses, we are trying to have a serious discussion.

And lel @ pigsoup for fulfilling the Canadian stereotype of being hapazardly apologetic MVGame

I don't think a fuel cost is an appropriate solution. OKW vehicles are already designed to be fuel investments, and I rather leave the manpower heavy T1 in tact. Having more options and capability to counter the unit with flanking is the core of the issue.

I'd rather the think get a fuel cost.

I don't think this would solve the issue, since it only takes one Kubel to seriously screw over the USF from the get-go, with the help of truck push and sturms- unless the fuel cost became inordinately large.

I'd think that having the Kubel remain exactly as it is now, but only buildable after the first truck is deployed, would be the ideal solution- that way the OKW has a manpower-only suppression unit that isn't terrible in the later stages of the game because of slow speed or rotation or pack up time making it roll over and die to AT guns, but would also avoid the 3 minute kubel-at-your-cutoff syndrome that makes USF so annoying to play. It would also require least changes to the unit itself.

At the same time it also allows the OKW player to make a more strategic choice- rushing out the Kubel would cost 440MP and 40 fuel, but theoretically can be done right out of the gate, so there would be tradeoffs involved- impactful unit that requires a tech decision early and fewer supporting units.

Also the vet 1 ability can't remain the same, it outclasses the Sauron halftrack and the million units with infantry awareness so hard it isn't even funny. I don't even see why it shouldn't get a clone of the infantry awareness ability, as boring as it is.

I'm not going to hazard making balance suggestions about the Kubel, but man oh man does it need to get fixed. I really hope Relic will hotfix this, rather than having us wait for weeks and a big patch. It would also be nice if they would acknowledge the problems with the Kubel and let us know that they are working on it.

I'm not going to hazard making balance suggestions about the Kubel, but man oh man does it need to get fixed. I really hope Relic will hotfix this, rather than having us wait for weeks and a big patch. It would also be nice if they would acknowledge the problems with the Kubel and let us know that they are working on it.

This exactly. I'm sure their statistics already show units performance accurately enough. Yesterday witnessed 3x 2vs2 games (with random mate) as USF and every single one had Kübel start. I'm not saying it's impossible to win but it's rather giving too big edge to OkW compared to USF which supposed to have strong early game.

And suggestion for hard counter as using purchasable commander is not an option here. By the time any new tier is unlocked, there are panzerschrecks already on the field.

This exactly. I'm sure their statistics already show units performance accurately enough. Yesterday witnessed 3x 2vs2 games (with random mate) as USF and every single one had Kübel start. I'm not saying it's impossible to win but it's rather giving too big edge to OkW compared to USF which supposed to have strong early game.

And suggestion for hard counter as using purchasable commander is not an option here. By the time any new tier is unlocked, there are panzerschrecks already on the field.

You know this once again sounds very much what a ost player faces when he faces he faces maxim spam with guards. their is a lot of whine of players. but to be honest not one of you buys the zooka and then complain that you dont have anti vehicle options.

You know this once again sounds very much what a ost player faces when he faces he faces maxim spam with guards. their is a lot of whine of players. but to be honest not one of you buys the zooka and then complain that you dont have anti vehicle options.

1. Kubel takes 3 hits to kill with a zooka

2. Zooka accuracy against Kubel is 0% at the range Kubel can suppress you at (seeing as it has more range), and 50% if you somehow manage to get into zooka range when not suppressed. Less than 10% if you happen to get suppressed by it or one of the other half a dozen kubels in the area.

3. Zookas cost 60 munitions each, while you start with 0 and have maybe 15 income for the first 6 minutes before an m20 can try break you out...except getting a zooka means that'll be first 8 minutes by which the puma is already chilling out next to your base or the obersoldaten production line has started producing some balanced axis infantry to welcome you. *

*In fact I suspect you get more zookas out by the 7 minute mark by making two m20s instead of trying to tech for zookas. Not that zooka is in any way a realistic counter to Kubel, even the (lol) BAR does better.

I'm sure you are making this magically work with your german wundermagic.

Meanwhile, what do I do against maxim spam as ostheer? Grenspam. What do I do against maximspam as okw? Volkspam. And it works pretty much every single time, maxims have always been the weaker of the sniper/maxim start choice since over a year ago.