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Is OKW the strongest faction currently?

23 Sep 2014, 12:21 PM
#81
avatar of Hagen67483

Posts: 65

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2014, 08:55 AMJohnnyB
To conclude, let's change OKW faction entirely.


Agreed. I think Dane got a good explaination why the OKW should be redesigned.

Here the OKW Part of the vid: http://youtu.be/gdMm4VApgrc?t=6m50s
Here the OKW conclusion for the people with less time: http://youtu.be/gdMm4VApgrc?t=9m10s


23 Sep 2014, 13:47 PM
#82
avatar of broodwarjc

Posts: 824



Let's correct you:

1. Buff Pathfinders when compared to JLI
2. Nerf Kubel so hard, yes
3. Absolutely. They got a munitions income buff, time to adjust some things with that in mind
4. I don't think anybody has suggested this, but feel free to provide me with links to prove me wrong
5. This is the alternative to 3, not an additional. Reducing it back and adjusting some prices is essentially the same as upping various costs
6. Absolutely need to spawn without LMG's, yes.
7. Who the hell said that?
8. Seriously who
9. Where are you getting this from. Goofy plz.

I'm really curious how long axis players will be able to cling to the 'oh it's just because they're cool!' reason for continuous 70%+ searching as Axis. As if somehow CoH2 is a unique special snowflake in all of human behavior, and every game ever won't have players gravitate (as a majority) towards the path of least resistance and the easiest army to play and win with.


1.I agree the Pathfinders need a buff
2.Yes
3.I am fine with this as long as the MP cost of Falls and Obers gets reduced; if they have to pay for their LMG.
4.I have seen a few suggestions for this in other threads, but not often
5.Agreed, this is the alternative to 3, the OKW arty costs should be reduced then, as should the Panzershrek upgrade
6.See 3
7.http://www.coh2.org/topic/22753/okw-puma
8.http://www.coh2.org/topic/23825/limit-king-tiger-to-1-built-per-gamehttp://www.coh2.org/topic/22243/why-isn-t-the-king-tiger-doctrinal
9.http://www.coh2.org/topic/22873/jagdtiger--the-gamebreakerhttp://www.coh2.org/topic/19656/world-of-jagdtiger-online

As for the end part of your post, see my signature.
23 Sep 2014, 13:51 PM
#83
avatar of MorgolKing

Posts: 148

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Sep 2014, 07:11 AMJohnnyB
OKW has the best infantry and tanks throughout the game. But if you think this is an advanage, think again.
Start game it's the only point where OKW is advantaged, because of kubel.
From Middle game the fuel problem begins to be serious untill late-game and end-gam.
Virtualy, in early game you don't need vehicles, you're doing fine with good infantry and kubel.
In middle game you will begin to lose the race related to tank building and you will have to compensate with infantry and team weapons as raketen. Now those from you who played vCOH know that infantry in COH2 it's not vCOH infantry, no matter the faction. When the map begins to be filled with tanks, infantry will be torn to pieces. Volksgenadiersw with a single schreck plus raketen cannot compensate enough the lack of AT as pzgrens and PAK 40 can compensate for Ostheer. A Puma must be added. But with every vehicle you build, you delay your teching and building of others (more powerfull) vehicles. Puma it's ok, but it's not for late game. Cannot realy fight with IS2, SU-85, T34/85 and so on. So you struggle untill late game to build one or two vehicles and (remember!!) keep them alive! I can lose a T34, I will build other in 2 minutes. I lose a Puma I will build other in 5 maybe 10 minutes.
More than this choises you make are particulary more important for THIS faction because flexibility it's not its strongpoint! Which makes it quite predictable on the battlefield.
Since beginning I have to make a choice: build T2 or T3? What should I do? If you make the rong choice that will cost you dearly. No T2 start (by T2 we understand the leigh + searchlight + jgdpanzer building) will keep you safe from a tank storm. On the other hand, if you chose T3, you will have some great options good for all but your infantry will suffer because you cannot heal it. T4 it,s usefull no doubt, but you have to put it somewhat in an advanced position (this is its purpose) and therefore exposed to all kind of artillery weapons and AT weapons. I don't want to mention here how efficient is soviet howitzer or katiusha against any OKW build. Or how B4 can kill your havies or buidings from such a safe distance whithout the possibility to retaliate.

Your heavies will be expensive, verry expensive. Panther is still possible but if you manage too build 2 you are a champion. However, by the time you do that, your opponent will most probably have 4 T34/76 plus one IS2 or plus 2 T34/85.

If you want to build a KT you will wait forever while not building vehicles at all or building just one which is VERRY RISKY from reasons stated above.

So yes, OKW it's a verry nice faction to play and it's quite hard not to like it due to it's elite units, but make no mistake related to difficulty. If you are a soviet or american only player and didn't try OKW yet, you will have a shock when you will try it for the first time. I remember what a (soviet only) guy said on this forum not verry long ago. Something like: OMG begun to play today with OKW and I found myself in middle game with to few infantry and with almost no vehicles, wtf?!

As a conclusion, the specific of this faction it's "high reward - high risk" and it was like this from the beginning. That is why it's so addictive and special, and not because it's "easy to play" as some people said here. Au contraire, I realy think that only truly skilfull players can be good with this faction. The rest of players if you want to reach the top, play soviets :P :P.

On a more serious note, a faction comparable to OKW as difficulty (though totally different) it's currently USF, but it wasn't allways like that.


+1. Soviets are definitely the strongest faction in 1v1. 2v2 things are pretty balanced with some tweaks needed.

3v3 and 4v4 are not and should not be considered for balance purposes. It ruins the game. I've been playing RTS since the mid-1990's. Everything from Warcraft 2, to Close Combat, Sid Meier's Gettysburg, Battle for Middle Earth, CoH1, DoW2. Whenever you mess with balancing based on team games you screw it up. Relic has avoided this mistake by in large with it's earlier titles, I hope all the crying on this forum doesn't change that.
23 Sep 2014, 13:57 PM
#84
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



+1. Soviets are definitely the strongest faction in 1v1. 2v2 things are pretty balanced with some tweaks needed.


You are 3 patches behind man.
23 Sep 2014, 14:13 PM
#85
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned


+1. Soviets are definitely the strongest faction in 1v1.


Not anymore...
23 Sep 2014, 14:20 PM
#86
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1



1.I agree the Pathfinders need a buff
2.Yes
3.I am fine with this as long as the MP cost of Falls and Obers gets reduced; if they have to pay for their LMG.
4.I have seen a few suggestions for this in other threads, but not often
5.Agreed, this is the alternative to 3, the OKW arty costs should be reduced then, as should the Panzershrek upgrade
6.See 3
7.http://www.coh2.org/topic/22753/okw-puma
8.http://www.coh2.org/topic/23825/limit-king-tiger-to-1-built-per-gamehttp://www.coh2.org/topic/22243/why-isn-t-the-king-tiger-doctrinal
9.http://www.coh2.org/topic/22873/jagdtiger--the-gamebreakerhttp://www.coh2.org/topic/19656/world-of-jagdtiger-online

As for the end part of your post, see my signature.


Manny thanks for sparing me of searching these topics.
Again, some people don't understand OKW achitecture, that's why they are crying OP all day. Comparing one unit to another, without considering all other factors is just wrong.
23 Sep 2014, 14:21 PM
#87
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1



Not anymore...


Oh, so that was the problem in fact.
23 Sep 2014, 15:11 PM
#90
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1

Honestly, i find Soviets to be the best 1v1 faction overall. And yes, i am playing the game actively. Look at my playercard. US is high risk and potentially high reward. Ostheer has weak early game but solid mid and lategame. And OKW is just frustrating to play in a 1v1 scenario.
23 Sep 2014, 15:41 PM
#91
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Sep 2014, 14:20 PMJohnnyB


Manny thanks for sparing me of searching these topics.
Again, some people don't understand OKW achitecture, that's why they are crying OP all day. Comparing one unit to another, without considering all other factors is just wrong.

Could you, please, enlighten us?
I'm serious. I'm ready to listen your points.
23 Sep 2014, 16:10 PM
#92
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1617

Honestly, i find Soviets to be the best 1v1 faction overall. And yes, i am playing the game actively. Look at my playercard. US is high risk and potentially high reward. Ostheer has weak early game but solid mid and lategame. And OKW is just frustrating to play in a 1v1 scenario.


You're only way to play Sov is Snipers/Shocks + ISU-152, or just accept the uneven losing battle.
Ostheer's early game is a bit tricky against USF, but osttruppens can compensate it, or a lucky teller.
USF...ah....nevermind, doesn't worth it.

okwokw > usfusfsovietssovietsostheerostheer
23 Sep 2014, 16:29 PM
#93
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1



You're only way to play Sov is Snipers/Shocks + ISU-152, or just accept the uneven losing battle.
Ostheer's early game is a bit tricky against USF, but osttruppens can compensate it, or a lucky teller.
USF...ah....nevermind, doesn't worth it.

okwokw > usfusfsovietssovietsostheerostheer


Weird, i had a lot of success with other soviet strats too. How come?
23 Sep 2014, 16:32 PM
#94
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1617



Weird, i had a lot of success with other soviet strats too. How come?


I'd like to see them, maybe show me in 1v1s or via replays? I'm curious 'cause I suck with sov.
23 Sep 2014, 16:36 PM
#95
avatar of theblitz6794

Posts: 395

Let's not forget OKW starts with enough fuel to immediately tech. No other faction can do it. OKW only needs, what, 50 fuel to pop a flaktrak (subtracting free starting fuel) or 70(?) for a puma.

USF needs 80 for captain, 15 for bazooka (which is uselss), 25 for grenade (free with OKW tech)

If USF goes for LT at 50, Puma will simply pop and overpower the m20 unless a lucky mine. 50+55 (for flak track) minus the much smaller starting USF fuel means Puma will very quickly hit the field and give USF a very small window.

Oh, the 50 cal does nothing to puma for some reason, yet the mg34 can pop incendiary and own an m20 or flak track
23 Sep 2014, 16:52 PM
#96
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1617

Let's not forget OKW starts with enough fuel to immediately tech. No other faction can do it. OKW only needs, what, 50 fuel to pop a flaktrak (subtracting free starting fuel) or 70(?) for a puma.

USF needs 80 for captain, 15 for bazooka (which is uselss), 25 for grenade (free with OKW tech)

If USF goes for LT at 50, Puma will simply pop and overpower the m20 unless a lucky mine. 50+55 (for flak track) minus the much smaller starting USF fuel means Puma will very quickly hit the field and give USF a very small window.

Oh, the 50 cal does nothing to puma for some reason, yet the mg34 can pop incendiary and own an m20 or flak track


Uh...soviets can get their T1 or T2 up at start. Ostheer can build T1 immidietly
23 Sep 2014, 18:39 PM
#97
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

To answer the OP directly. Yes. As in other parts of this thread have stated that every single one of their units are either good or mostly GREAT. This alone sets them apart from the other factions and allows for multiple strats that are viable.

OKW doesnt have to play a certain way. They can be successful playing offensively or defensively or a mix of both. This combined with the rewarding teching structure that is also incredibly cheap makes them the strongest faction.

I would much prefer that outside of a fuel balance mechanism or a change in Tier of the Kubel that Relic leave them as is. Then elevate the other factions to their level by making more units in their rosters viable and rewarding to use.
23 Sep 2014, 18:59 PM
#98
avatar of wayward516

Posts: 229

Then elevate the other factions to their level by making more units in their rosters viable and rewarding to use.


Buff the SU-76!

FOR THE RODINA!
23 Sep 2014, 19:03 PM
#99
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637



Buff the SU-76!

FOR THE RODINA!


As a wise Pgren once said "No wonder they call it a little bitch"
23 Sep 2014, 19:09 PM
#100
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned


Buff the SU-76!

FOR THE RODINA!


If the barrage costed 40muni...

i'd spam it till the day is done
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