My Epiphany

Hi all,

Just wanted to share a thought with those of you who, like me, desperately want to play Allies but realize that it's a losing proposition.

Think of it this way...if you constantly wrack your brain to come up with better ways of playing, hone your micro, and practice, prctice, practice.....you probably still won't win. Let's face it; late Axis is crazy, and unless you win before 15 mins are up, you won't at all, or rarely.

BUT, if you take a deep breath, and do what pretty much everyone else is doing , and play Axis, you'll find that it is drastically easier ! All that practice, all that micro and small unit tactics will pay off when playing Axis. It's like trying to drive a race in a Pinto, and practicing in a Pinto, then getting a Ferrari.

Seriously, try it. I am a dedicated Allied player, both USF and Soviet, and just got so goddamn sick of losing all the time. I finally said fuck it, let's go Axis, and finally enjoy some games.

It really is so much easier. I even felt like I had to apologize to the opposing team, like, "sorry guys...I know Axis is crazy..". Something that still irritates me though, are those players that only play Axis and think they're good. As far as I'm concerned, Axis = EZ mode. But it does offer a nice change of pace from being stomped all the time as Allies.

PS. yes, I'm talking about large team games, 3v3, 4v4. Yes, I realize that 1v1 exists, no, I don't want to play that mode. Large team games are a part of this game, and they desperately need fixing.

Axis dominating in big teamgames? No shit. It will be unbalanced, it always was. You cant fix it. Get over it.

4v4 games are indeed the easiest thing ever for the axis.

Nothing new here.

Fixing it would involve letting the allies have a late game force that isn't an ISU (Which has been hit with the nerf bat anyway). Which apparently is a big no-no for relic. Because relic seems to have forgotten who was winning harder the longer WWII went on.

The last time relic tried to fix team games it didn't do much. Since 4v4 is a big spam fest and abuse fest.

Relic wants a different role for each faction. But right now in 4v4 and perhaps in other modes, the OBW are OP.

Axis dominating in big teamgames? No shit. It will be unbalanced, it always was. You cant fix it. Get over it.

So....what ? Just don't play team games as Allies ? You may as well just remove that game mode entirely then, or allow Axis to play vs Axis.

So....what ? Just don't play team games as Allies ? You may as well just remove that game mode entirely then, or allow Axis to play vs Axis.

You can play it. I didnt say that you cant. Its just how the game is designed. 4v4 is a big spam and abuse fest. And even when it isnt, its easy to stall and get into the lategame quickly. Where Axis usually dominates. Thats how it is. And thats how it probably will always be. Get over it.

You can play it. I didnt say that you cant. Its just how the game is designed. 4v4 is a big spam and abuse fest. And even when it isnt, its easy to stall and get into the lategame quickly. Where Axis usually dominates. Thats how it is. And thats how it probably will always be. Get over it.

Yes, I know I can play it. I have been. However, the implication is that as a game mode, it's nearly impossible to win as Allies, and thus, unplayable for anyone who cares even remotely about having fun. And I have gotten over it. I started playing Axis.

for such an "epiphany" its not really well thought out, presented and tbh im not sure it even can be qualified as an epiphany.

my opinion on the topic non withstanding. he has every right to make this thread reguardless of your/my/bob joe's opinions about it. if a moderator thinks a thread is breaking of the rules he will deal with it. posting "off topic" in the thread isn't the proper way to handle this we have a report button for that. also someones trash may very well be someone else's treasure.

if you think a thread is breaking the forum rules please use the report button. if you dislike the contents for whatever reason. there is the option to ignore it or explain why you disagree.

TL;DR
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for such an "epiphany" its not really well thought out, presented and tbh im not sure it even can be qualified as an epiphany.

my opinion on the topic non withstanding. he has every right to make this thread reguardless of your/my/bob joe's opinions about it. if a moderator thinks a thread is breaking of the rules he will deal with it. posting "off topic" in the thread isn't the proper way to handle this we have a report button for that. also someones trash may very well be someone else's treasure.

if you think a thread is breaking the forum rules please use the report button. if you dislike the contents for whatever reason. there is the option to ignore it or explain why you disagree.

TL;DR
Show Spoiler

Well, I'm not sure how much more "well thought out" it needs to be. Granted, the topic isn't revolutionary, but I was merely saying that playing Allies in team games is good practice for becoming an outstanding Axis player. As for presentation, again, sorry I don't have a PowerPoint presentation for you. And by definition, an epiphany is subjective. Anyway, yes, this was partly a rant, and partly me sharing an amusing thought that came to me. But hey, at least my post didn't feature the words "Pershing", "OP", or "spam", right ?

PS. yes, I'm talking about large team games, 3v3, 4v4. Yes, I realize that 1v1 exists, no, I don't want to play that mode. Large team games are a part of this game, and they desperately need fixing.

The Problem is how to fix large team game battles and at the same time keep the 1vs1 balance? Just one example, the elefant is complete shit in 1vs1, but it is a great unit in large team games. What to do? Buff it, nerf it?

As long as Relic uses the same Balance for all game modes, 3vs3 and 4vs4 will be unbalanced as hell in my opinion. And I think seperate balance is the last thing on Relics to do list.

Been WRECKING axis in 4v4's lately. You need to play with high ranked players. I have many high ranked players on my friends list. So when ever i play a 4v4. i get invited or invite others. i Rarley play alone.


The sad part is how most of the axis player that play 4v4's think they are gud. But when they fight of group of player who have almost completly mastered the game. We get called, hackers, cheaters, etc...

The most amusing thing is how bad most axis 4v4 players are. Breaking their bubble is the best thing in the world.

As was stated previously, how do you want to fix it with little work?

Right now, 1v1 and 4v4 balance are opposing sides of the spectrum. Balancing for 1v1 makes 4v4 horrible and vice versa.

You would need to rework the maps as the map layout in 1v1 does not scale to 4v4, they are usually far more narrow and long. Less frontline works great for Axis due to PaK, MG42, MG34, Jagdtiger, Tiger, ... The longer map means it's harder to pressure with the strong USF infantry early/midgame. If you are forced off you yield for far longer than 1v1.

Resource income is another issue as do some abilities.

Yet the problem is, these scaling and map problems would need major manpower to fix. I do not think that Relic is capable of doing this.

Been WRECKING axis in 4v4's lately. You need to play with high ranked players. I have many high ranked players on my friends list. So when ever i play a 4v4. i get invited or invite others. i Rarley play alone.


The sad part is how most of the axis player that play 4v4's think they are gud. But when they fight of group of player who have almost completly mastered the game. We get called, hackers, cheaters, etc...

The most amusing thing is how bad most axis 4v4 players are. Breaking their bubble is the best thing in the world.

Well, I'd love to play with some good players. I'm "Patches_O'Hoolahan" on Steam.

As was stated previously, how do you want to fix it with little work?

Right now, 1v1 and 4v4 balance are opposing sides of the spectrum. Balancing for 1v1 makes 4v4 horrible and vice versa.

You would need to rework the maps as the map layout in 1v1 does not scale to 4v4, they are usually far more narrow and long. Less frontline works great for Axis due to PaK, MG42, MG34, Jagdtiger, Tiger, ... The longer map means it's harder to pressure with the strong USF infantry early/midgame. If you are forced off you yield for far longer than 1v1.

Resource income is another issue as do some abilities.

Yet the problem is, these scaling and map problems would need major manpower to fix. I do not think that Relic is capable of doing this.

Tells it as it is. +1

Been WRECKING axis in 4v4's lately. You need to play with high ranked players. I have many high ranked players on my friends list. So when ever i play a 4v4. i get invited or invite others. i Rarley play alone.


The sad part is how most of the axis player that play 4v4's think they are gud. But when they fight of group of player who have almost completly mastered the game. We get called, hackers, cheaters, etc...

The most amusing thing is how bad most axis 4v4 players are. Breaking their bubble is the best thing in the world.

cool bruh if you dont find satisfaction elsewhere

Balancing 4vs4 wont break 1vs1, but when there is an unbalance in 1vs1 it will be magnify in 4vs4.

It is why when you have to balance, you have to tune the greater before the smaller. Failing to do so will result will make it a lot harder to tune.

Always balance the maximum before the minimum. The complexity before the simplicity. There is no exception to that rule.

Example : It's why when making a poster picture, you always use a bigger picture and you shrink it to the desired size. If you use a smaller picture, glitch will be more apparent when you zoom it.

Same rule apply with beta testers, you have to use pros to beta test, playing a great number of games while switching sides. After that, you do the same with noobs. Doing the opposite will get you nowhere.

The same apply to computer models, games. etc.

Balancing 4vs4 will never break the balance of 1vs1. Ever.

Just try to give me one good example where i could be wrong. Just try...

Thanks.

Please remove that post as i started a thread with it in balance. thx

Tweaking units that don't have much of an impact in 1v1 but always appear in team games is a great start. Jagdtiger shooting through obstacles, I'm looking at you.

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Please remove that post as i started a thread with it in balance. thx

Thanks for self-moderating. Done