A Quick Note For The COH2.org Community

Please create a balance server for testing strategies. Please.

Ever since I saw Relic employees streaming themselves playing automatch and DoW on the clock at the offices, I have had less than rosy opinions on how, at the very least, those that balance this game treat the game and community.

Not just from the fact that they were doing it, but also how they were doing it. This is just the instance where people just got fed up enough. This isn't a first occasion.

Its one of the reasons I haven't bought a bit of content for CoH2 since Code Blue.

We won't be isolating ourselves from you guys, the relationship with we have with our community is important. It will simply be evolving, and it's clearly evident that needs to happen.

I'm heading home for the evening, hopefully we can all agree that we want to move on and establish a strong mutual relationship built from respect.

Thank you to those that have taken the time to share their thoughts in this thread

Some very valid points have been raised, and we've got nothing but opportunity to grow from here!

Cynthia, I really hope this isn't a knee jerk reaction to what BreakingBrad said in a replay thread. Honestly a lot of people have thin skins and cry too much on these forums. Relic is not running for political office nor should it pander to every complaint on these boards. I see it reflected in balance patch notes as well -- pandering to a few vocal crybabies.

You don't have to publically support or condone certain actions, but you don't also have to apologize for trivial posts -- it just encourages more whining.

There are certain members of the community who are inherently far more toxic than any Dev.

Let Relic worry about their own employee conduct.
We instead have far more serious concerns about toxic snake members of our own community.

There are certain members of the community who are inherently far more toxic than any Dev.

Let Relic worry about their own employee conduct.
We instead have far more serious concerns about toxic snake members of our own community.

I'm a one DENSE motherfornicator, 'cause I can't figure what those kitchen utensils can make with each other.

Please create a balance server for testing strategies. Please.

Ever since I saw Relic employees streaming themselves playing automatch and DoW on the clock at the offices, I have had less than rosy opinions on how, at the very least, those that balance this game treat the game and community.

Not just from the fact that they were doing it, but also how they were doing it. This is just the instance where people just got fed up enough. This isn't a first occasion.

Its one of the reasons I haven't bought a bit of content for CoH2 since Code Blue.

I agree with you that the streaming is a bit much, unless it's of new content or discussions about balance, etc.

However, I think that playing on automatch is actually one of the best ways to test how units are performing. Have you ever heard someone say that if you're having trouble against a certain build/strategy, you should switch to that faction, copy that BO/strat and see how people counter it? They can only get so much stimuli on a test server. The reason Brad went kubel spam/rush (I would assume) was to see how people counter it, if it's reasonably countered at all. If it's too hard to beat -> nerf bat comes a'swingin'.

Obviously the community members behavior was inflammatory, but IMO this whole thing stems from the fact that Relic(Brad) is using ranked automatch as a testing ground for balance issues. I'll go ahead and give Brad the benefit of the doubt that he was testing the Kubels performance in a competitive setting(at the cost of an extremely frustrated community member) rather than actively trolling for a reaction, although his comments in the replay thread suggest otherwise.

I guess I could see automatch being a good competitive environment to evaluate a units performance, but when you represent the company (and the specific department) that is responsible for obviously imbalanced(or at the very least extremely frustrating) units, and then you abuse the strength of the unit by both trolling in game and in the replay thread, you're going to come off as both incompetent and rude.

Ah, well, I do see what you mean.

Another, related issue that I think exists in this community, is this notion that if someone uses an "abuse" strat, whether it's too many Kubels, too many snipers, too many maxims, or simply building one ISU, that gives you license to lose your shit at them both in game and then later on the forums or where ever. I understand in this case that there are other rather important factors at work. I just think it'd be nice if we, as a community that is many ways totally awesome, could in someway address this problem rather than just focusing on the Relic stuff, though that is also important.

I got mad before, I guess, because my gut reaction was "wow, a dev trolling me? That's a thousand times more positive than the typical interaction I get in an online RTS!"

Thanks for proving my point.

Quite often its those who are resolutely and egocentrically convinced about their own moral quality, without ever questioning it, who make the worst trolls and most toxic opinionators.

The famous irony and hypocrisy of treating people you dont like by a different standard, because somehow in their minds they "deserve it", and therefore acting badly towards them is justified, even though that bad act is in and of itself toxic.

But who cares, cos Im good and moral, right?
That means I can behave wrongly and immorally myself towards people I dont like, right?

Nope.

Guess what. You are yourself the shouting kettle yourself, and the pot aint listening or guilty fornyour own behavior.

Here you are now, out of the blue, trying to start a fight by trolling, with an image no less.

Also, gj on ignoring the actual formative long post I made in this thread!

PLEASE, stop calling kubel spam 'abuse'. Just because a unit is strong or OP doesnt mean youre not allowed to build them as you please. theyre in the game, and the stats were INTENTIONALLY buffed. people who spam kubels arent abusing anything, if anything they are just spamming. abusing something would be like using the double b4 shot bug, or if you were somehow to cheat and do something that you should not be able to.

yesterday pq mentioned void rays in starcraft2 and how they were incredibly strong early after release, and how blizzard didnt bother patching them until later so that the community can try to find counters. i remember this period quite well, and while it was quite difficult to play against, people actively tried to find ways to beat this. i really hope you guys would try to apply yourself more to the game and try to figure out strategies that would fare better against kubel spam, instead of doing your same strategy and then when it fails coming to whine on the forums.

also, think about jsut nerfs, but think about BUFFS aswell. what in the USFs kit is preventing them from effectively dealing with kubels? is it that bazookas dont have good enough accuracy to hit a small target like a kubel? what about smoke? maybe we should increase bazooka accuracy so that it can effectively counter light vehicles!

PLEASE, stop calling kubel spam 'abuse'. Just because a unit is strong or OP doesnt mean youre not allowed to build them as you please. theyre in the game, and the stats were INTENTIONALLY buffed. people who spam kubels arent abusing anything, if anything they are just spamming. abusing something would be like using the double b4 shot bug, or if you were somehow to cheat and do something that you should not be able to.

yesterday pq mentioned void rays in starcraft2 and how they were incredibly strong early after release, and how blizzard didnt bother patching them until later so that the community can try to find counters. i remember this period quite well, and while it was quite difficult to play against, people actively tried to find ways to beat this. i really hope you guys would try to apply yourself more to the game and try to figure out strategies that would fare better against kubel spam, instead of doing your same strategy and then when it fails coming to whine on the forums.

Makes me wonder where have you been with this post when katiusha was intentionally buffed

Just because unit was buffed doesn't mean its fine.

Anyone remember lightning claw terminators?

Makes me wonder where have you been with this post when katiusha was intentionally buffed

Just because unit was buffed doesn't mean its fine.

Anyone remember lightning claw terminators?

when the katys were buffed, i did think they were very strong and there were many a times when my infantry would get wiped at the medic truck. however i tried to find ways to counter the katy ingame, like using a luchs or ostwind and sneaking around the edge of the map to kill it. hell, even pre-patch JLI could kill a katy if the player wasnt being careful.

PLEASE, stop calling kubel spam 'abuse'. Just because a unit is strong or OP doesnt mean youre not allowed to build them as you please. theyre in the game, and the stats were INTENTIONALLY buffed. people who spam kubels arent abusing anything, if anything they are just spamming. abusing something would be like using the double b4 shot bug, or if you were somehow to cheat and do something that you should not be able to.

yesterday pq mentioned void rays in starcraft2 and how they were incredibly strong early after release, and how blizzard didnt bother patching them until later so that the community can try to find counters. i remember this period quite well, and while it was quite difficult to play against, people actively tried to find ways to beat this. i really hope you guys would try to apply yourself more to the game and try to figure out strategies that would fare better against kubel spam, instead of doing your same strategy and then when it fails coming to whine on the forums.

also, think about jsut nerfs, but think about BUFFS aswell. what in the USFs kit is preventing them from effectively dealing with kubels? is it that bazookas dont have good enough accuracy to hit a small target like a kubel? what about smoke? maybe we should increase bazooka accuracy so that it can effectively counter light vehicles!

Wonder what you do vs Kübels, sounds like you can counter everything perfectly. Teach us Master!

Thanks for proving my point.

Quite often its those who are resolutely and egocentrically convinced about their own moral quality, without ever questioning it, who make the worst trolls and most toxic opinionators.

The famous irony and hypocrisy of treating people you dont like by a different standard, because somehow in their minds they "deserve it", and therefore acting badly towards them is justified, even though that bad act is in and of itself toxic.

But who cares, cos Im good and moral, right?
That means I can behave wrongly and immorally myself towards people I dont like, right?

Nope.

Guess what. You are yourself the shouting kettle yourself, and the pot aint listening or guilty fornyour own behavior.

Here you are now, out of the blue, trying to start a fight by trolling, with an image no less.

Also, gj on ignoring the actual formative long post I made in this thread!

You are a funny one! Ipkai was simply pointing out the irony in your address on toxicity, when you are perhaps one of the most toxic members of this community. Sometimes "a picture is worth a thousand words" and "the truth hurts" as they say.

It's quite funny you of all people lecturing Ipkai on morals and community spirit, when the guy has done nothing but good things for this community, even for people like yourself.

The problem for yourself, and why nobody takes you seriously, is because, although you dress your posts up in good words and so many "strawmen", people can still read between the lines. They know exactly what you are, and exactly what you stand for.

Perhaps a look in the mirror is needed?

6 pages in.....my own view is that I would trust Ipkai almost implicitly... yet to a degree, I am conflicted, bcs Cannonade has been stable for the past few weeks.

I don't want a flame war here....so I am locking.

If you disagree, please feel free to take it up with a higher staff member than me