Fallschirmjager

Spawning units anywhere on the map is just a horrible game mechanic and Relic really needs to stop including crap like this.

But I'm sure 2 man sniper teams are ok.

Relic isn't going to change that meta since they implemented storm troopers at the same level - but for Ostheer.

I don't mind to have falls popping out of building but only if it is from the allied fog of war. So it cannot pop just next to a unit. But since Relic seems fine with the meta they implemented already, that's just a dream.

First of all, please don't throw around statements like "they have nearly the same damage as shock troops." That's just not true.
Falls can loose to non upgraded airborne squads and can lose to bar upgraded Riflemen.

1. tank goes behind building for repairs, spawn on building kill engineers, by the time they figure out what happened all they can do is retreat.

2. Need to spot enemy units for artillary? perfect.

3. think enemy might be garrisoned in a building? theres a great way to find out

4. enemy retreating instead of dying? just instantly spawn in their retreat path for the wipe.

1. Working as intended, just don't repair your units near a building if you know your enemy uses Fallschirmjäger.

2. An infiltration unit is scouting. Again I don't see the problem.

3. Is really a waste to spawn a Fallschirmjäger from your base.

4. Again working as intended, every time you see somebody complaining about soviet snipers, somebody will mention to spawn Fallschirmjäger behind the lines

If you loose unit different then a scout car to partisans you should quit the game forever.

There were several occassions where I lost heavily damaged tanks to a partisans with shrecks.

Again another thread complaining about the asset of another faction, if you want to play mirrored factions you should run up Age of Empires 2.

Spawning units anywhere on the map is just a horrible game mechanic and Relic really needs to stop including crap like this.

In my opinion it's a really cool feature that adds more tactical depth to the game.

/Axis mode on: But they are a elites!! They were called green devils!1 /Axis mode off


I was under impression, that at least JLI stay there, but I don't own the doctrine and missed the week it was available at rotation

axis mode?

so what if they are elite, i guess it fair for shock troops and paratroopers to be able to spawn anywhere because their elite

its a shit mechanic, no unit should be able to spawn in the fog of war the end

But I'm sure 2 man sniper teams are ok.

BTW just few days ago I had two snipers at 2vs2 game caught by falls. I hit 1-R (snipers assigned to 1 and retreat) instantly, but already lost 3 models, only one surviving. Meaning Falls already killed their own cost worth of models.

axis mode?

so what if they are elite, i guess it fair for shock troops and paratroopers to be able to spawn anywhere because their elite

its a shit mechanic, no unit should be able to spawn in the fog of war the end[/quote
Axis mode means typical Axis player statements, when you speak about Falls' performance

As for spawning.. Hey we have a commander that spawns two units that are rather meh. They have chance to do something only on arrival, then becoming pretty useless as they have to fight from the front

Shock troops outclass Fallschirmjager and they are the best infantry in the game. Fallschirms need to have an advantage to compensate that huge price. In addition, there is nothing else you would chose that doctrine for, now that Mg34 is useless compared to kubel. On the other hand, all doctrines involving shock troops contains other usefull stuff. So at meta level, things are compensating.
Conclusion: stop whining about fallschirms and every single OKW unit in the game. Everything is OP according to you guys.

Shock troops outclass Fallschirmjager and they are the best infantry in the game. Fallschirms need to have an advantage to compensate that huge price. In addition, there is nothing else you would chose that doctrine for, now that Mg34 is useless compared to kubel. On the other hand, all doctrines involving shock troops contains other usefull stuff. So at meta level, things are compensating.
Conclusion: stop whining about fallschirms and every single OKW unit in the game. Everything is OP according to you guys.

ever build a ubersosdaton?

Shock troops have no Long range DPS. Shock troops cannot Panzerfaust. Shock troops can't get passive healing.

I have zero qualms pinning Falls as the best infantry unit in the game because of the mix of firepower and utility right now.

The only thing that bugs me is their free pass to one-click spawn path retreat gibbing, or arriving to harass points and demanding a serious effort be made to remove them. That's not what an infiltration unit should be.

If they spawned with Kar rifles and had to actually buy their massive firepower package (just like airborne) that would be fine. They could even be made cheaper to call in to compensate. But as it, the ability to neutral spawn that much DPS is just silly.

ever build a ubersosdaton?

Ober is not worthy after the LMG nerf.

In my opinion it's a really cool feature that adds more tactical depth to the game.

It just let Axis players not having to improve their playstyle.

Blob
Blob
Blob
Blob and pop a falls behind the HMG - GG

Ober is not worthy after the LMG nerf.

They lost ~3 dps on the LMG and gained most of it back on their KARs being buffed.

Shock troops have no Long range DPS. Shock troops cannot Panzerfaust. Shock troops can't get passive healing.

Shocktroops hardly need passive healing or long range DPS when they have 1.5 body armor that makes them practically invincible. Though I did find a King Tiger will handily take out 5 in one shot if they manage to bunch up, same goes for a single volksgrenadier grenade.


That said though, the German factions Long Range DPS can't penetrate that damn armor and it makes them pretty much invincible, able to storm across open ground and completely ignore cover.

They lost ~3 dps on the LMG and gained most of it back on their KARs being buffed.

All changes to OKW (wich turned it into something very different of what it was at the beginning), are the result of your crying, dear whiners. But you must consider that no nerf will come without something other to be buffed or changed. I mean if you think that crying a river for fallschirm nerf will pay off, maybe it will, but something else will be changed and you will whine again. Nothing will be turned into a worst thing whithout additional changes just because you can't figure it out how to beat it.

So take a look at what OKW was at the beginning and what it is now, from your allied only perspective and think: you like it better now? My feeling is that you don't. Especially if we talk about "pros" 4v4 games.

So you know what? Stop with the whining, that will surely pay off.

Shocktroops hardly need passive healing or long range DPS when they have 1.5 body armor that makes them practically invincible. Though I did find a King Tiger will handily take out 5 in one shot if they manage to bunch up, same goes for a single volksgrenadier grenade.


That said though, the German factions Long Range DPS can't penetrate that damn armor and it makes them pretty much invincible, able to storm across open ground and completely ignore cover.

How many times do I have to explain to you how Shock Trooper armor works before you understand?

1.5 armor is roughly equivalent to .66 received accuracy (Obers have .7) against weapons with a penetration of 1. Stuff like HMGs, LMGs, Light Vehicles, and tank machine guns have penetration values higher than 1. Meaning received accuracy is superior against stuff like Obersoldaten that rely on LMGs to do damage.

All changes to OKW (wich turned it into something very different of what it was at the beginning), are the result of your crying, dear whiners. But you must consider that no nerf will come without something other to be buffed or changed. I mean if you think that crying a river for fallschirm nerf will pay off, maybe it will, but something else will be changed and you will whine again. Nothing will be turned into a worst thing whithout additional changes just because you can't figure it out how to beat it.

So take a look at what OKW was at the beginning and what it is now, from your allied only perspective and think: you like it better now? My feeling is that you don't. Especially if we talk about "pros" 4v4 games.

So you know what? Stop with the whining, that will surely pay off.

I'm amused how defensive you got about my post, which was not whining at all. Merely pointing out that the nerf to the Obersoldaten LMG dps was mostly compensated by increasing their rifle damage.

I think it is stupid for any faction to be able to spawn units that do as much DPS as Falls in an ambient building. If you gave USF the option to spawn a double BAR rifle squad in a building I'd say that is dumb too. If you had Falls spawn with KARs (with a cost reduction from the current 440 manpower of course) and they had to spend X munitions to get their FG-42s, I'd be cool with the building spawn. I think the Stormtroopers that Wehr just got with their new doctrine are fine.

Oh and I don't play 4v4 nor do I only play Allies, but nice try

These guys dont seem to be talked about much. But their value easily goes beyond their manpower cost. THey have incredibly close range killing power, almost as much as shock troopers (your non shock trooper infantry will surely run away if they get close)

However thats not really an issue on its own. The real issue is how they spawn. They can spawn nearly anywhere regardless of fog of war, instantly, and without warning. It has so many uses,

1. tank goes behind building for repairs, spawn on building kill engineers, by the time they figure out what happened all they can do is retreat.

2. Need to spot enemy units for artillary? perfect.

3. think enemy might be garrisoned in a building? theres a great way to find out

4. enemy retreating instead of dying? just instantly spawn in their retreat path for the wipe.

There should really be some warning so you know that you might be subjected to that kind of thing. In the same way paratroopers give a warning. Eg a green smoke followed by a 4-5 second delay, THEN spawning.

or alternatively, make it so that vision on the building is required to spawn out of it and keep it instant. (the first suggestion would keep them as behind the lines harassers though)

Its just silly that axis get such a powerful unit that spawns anywhere instantly. And then allied paratroopers which actually have airbourne like mechanics have to deal with drop zones and typically being seen if paradropping behind enemy lines, and a huge delay.. and once theyre in there they theyre bassically just riflemen that are a little bit better.

I think they should ONLY be able to spawn inside your own territory or have the same spawn mechanics as paratroopers.

All changes to OKW (wich turned it into something very different of what it was at the beginning), are the result of your crying, dear whiners. But you must consider that no nerf will come without something other to be buffed or changed. I mean if you think that crying a river for fallschirm nerf will pay off, maybe it will, but something else will be changed and you will whine again. Nothing will be turned into a worst thing whithout additional changes just because you can't figure it out how to beat it.

So take a look at what OKW was at the beginning and what it is now, from your allied only perspective and think: you like it better now? My feeling is that you don't. Especially if we talk about "pros" 4v4 games.

So you know what? Stop with the whining, that will surely pay off.

You are totally right, only Soviets and USF get mercilessly bashed with nerf bat with no buffs in return.

Relic isn't going to change that meta since they implemented storm troopers at the same level - but for Ostheer.

Actually, storms are an example of WELL implemented squad that can deploy behind the lines.

Another one would be paratroopers.

Why?

Because you spawn a squad that can do something, yet doesn't OMGWTFBBQ everything (like old JLI and fallshirms) and still scales later good with decent weapon upgrades and default abilities so its affordable to keep up and useful after the initial push/spawn(unlike partisans).

How many times do I have to explain to you how Shock Trooper armor works before you understand?

1.5 armor is roughly equivalent to .66 received accuracy (Obers have .7) against weapons with a penetration of 1. Stuff like HMGs, LMGs, Light Vehicles, and tank machine guns have penetration values higher than 1. Meaning received accuracy is superior against stuff like Obersoldaten that rely on LMGs to do damage.



I'm amused how defensive you got about my post, which was not whining at all. Merely pointing out that the nerf to the Obersoldaten LMG dps was mostly compensated by increasing their rifle damage.

I think it is stupid for any faction to be able to spawn units that do as much DPS as Falls in an ambient building. If you gave USF the option to spawn a double BAR rifle squad in a building I'd say that is dumb too. If you had Falls spawn with KARs (with a cost reduction from the current 440 manpower of course) and they had to spend X munitions to get their FG-42s, I'd be cool with the building spawn. I think the Stormtroopers that Wehr just got with their new doctrine are fine.

Oh and I don't play 4v4 nor do I only play Allies, but nice try

I was speaking generally, not about you, but about all whiners that since okw appeared they only claimed "this unit op, that unit op" without considering at all at this faction's architecture and why units are the way they are. And the result was far from balancing things. Actualy, okw was more balanced at the begginig as it is now. Well, I'm speaking in the wind,anyway.

Ok, I think we have now nearly all units for OKW being done for getting a "this unit is overpowered" thread.

Actually, storms are an example of WELL implemented squad that can deploy behind the lines.

Another one would be paratroopers.

Why?

Because you spawn a squad that can do something, yet doesn't OMGWTFBBQ everything (like old JLI and fallshirms) and still scales later good with decent weapon upgrades and default abilities so its affordable to keep up and useful after the initial push/spawn(unlike partisans).

Just a matter of misunderstanding, I was talking about the spawning from a building - which is in some situation broken compared to paratroops landing. Popping out of a building just next a unit and ripe it off in 3 sec isn't what I call a interesting meta (but anyone has his own opinion). A warning or an area of denial around units in the ground would make it more relevant.
And don't be wrong, storm are maybe weaker than falls, they are still elite units that can kill anything fast enough next to their popping building. Paratroop as well, but you have like 5 seconds before they effectively land and the area must be really open. As Axis, putting your units next to a building is a good counter vs paratroops landing.

I know what did you meant.

Hence the part about initial shock value that is lower with storms and extremely high with fallshirms, haven't played against new JLI used in ambushing way yet, but of all squads spawning on the building, storms are most balanced ones.