Are kubelwagens OP

3 things wrong with that video:

1. The Scout Car attacked from the front at a distance, rather than moving in or attacking a flank.
2. The Kubelwagen was in HMG mode, rather than moving like in a real scenario.
3. The Kubelwagen suffered Engine Damage near the end. Engine Damage is an RNG alternative to Death.

All in all, this video doesn't prove anything except the fact that if un-microed, the M3 might lose if the Kubel gets lucky.

I think for this unit to be balanced and match its role and cost relic should make the following changes:

Cost change from 240 mp to 210mp and 10fu

REASON: to make it more consistent with other units and penalize spam much like was done with m3 few patches ago (from 10fu to 15fu).


Acceleration change from 4.5 to 2.5

REASON: currently the kubel is too fast, it can change direction and get out of a good flank because of this.


Sight change from 50 to 35 and preferably to 30 if all mgs get this change.

REASON: this unit can go solo with that sight and attack and suppress infantry units well before they can even see it. Also it can see flanking units before they can get in range or see it.


Target Size change from 10 to 15

REASON: simple so u can hit the damn thing and the numbers are explained in a previous post.


There are other areas that can be addressed like penetration, damage, and suppression. However, I think if the changes above are applied this unit can become balanced. And after all balance is usually done in steps. Plus keeping those 3 things the same enables players to make good use of its suppression and damage to attack snipers for example.

3 things wrong with that video:

1. The Scout Car attacked from the front at a distance, rather than moving in or attacking a flank.
2. The Kubelwagen was in HMG mode, rather than moving like in a real scenario.
3. The Kubelwagen suffered Engine Damage near the end. Engine Damage is an RNG alternative to Death.

All in all, this video doesn't prove anything except the fact that if un-microed, the M3 might lose if the Kubel gets lucky.

There is nothing wrong with this video, except the way you are looking at it.

That's a big if because it's too RNG based. Check how this confrontation turns out:

My suggestion is to never rush m3 to fight a kubel, it's just a very unpredictable fight. And if u are fighting a good player he will most likely have an AT waiting for u by the 3 min mark max.

If you pay attention to the attached comment (which you have skipped in your post) you would understand that it is pointing out that the recent changes to the kubel have made it unpredictable against the m3. Furthermore, it suggests not rushing your m3 to destroy the kubel.

1 kubel is okay, but if a guy builds two, then it's getting difficult. Kubel packing up the other kubel is a nightmare.

1 kubel is okay, but if a guy builds two, then it's getting difficult. Kubel packing up the other kubel is a nightmare.

Sounds exactly like maxim spam to me...

There should be a compensation for the sturmpio small nerf. I mean you cannot have sturmpios nerfed AND kubel left as it was before patch. That wouldn't be fair. If kubel needs to be toned down, then sturmpios need to be as they were pre-patch. It's a simple rule of meta-balance.

1. The Scout Car attacked from the front at a distance, rather than moving in or attacking a flank.
2. The Kubelwagen was in HMG mode, rather than moving like in a real scenario.
3. The Kubelwagen suffered Engine Damage near the end. Engine Damage is an RNG alternative to Death.

1. In fact this is the correct way to use it, the Kubel gains more damage from you closing in on it, it will guaranteed win against an M3 that comes in closer than max range, rather than being an RNG fight. Why? Because the Kubel goes from 1.3 to 1.9 penetration, while m3 goes from 1.25 to 1.5, and the kubel also has some minor values like cooldown that are worse at range but better at short than on the m3. TL;DR: never close in with M3 unless kubel is not firing at you

2. The HMG mode does not in fact do anything against vehicles, it just vastly increases suppression on the gun. Moving does not really affect Kubel DPS against anything now, nor the M3 DPS against the kubel, so it wouldn't change anything.

3. Yes, at the best possible range for the M3, the fight is an RNG battle.

1. In fact this is the correct way to use it, the Kubel gains more damage from you closing in on it, it will guaranteed win against an M3 that comes in closer than max range, rather than being an RNG fight. Why? Because the Kubel goes from 1.3 to 1.9 penetration, while m3 goes from 1.25 to 1.5, and the kubel also has some minor values like cooldown that are worse at range but better at short than on the m3. TL;DR: never close in with M3 unless kubel is not firing at you

2. The HMG mode does not in fact do anything against vehicles, it just vastly increases suppression on the gun. Moving does not really affect Kubel DPS against anything now, nor the M3 DPS against the kubel, so it wouldn't change anything.

3. Yes, at the best possible range for the M3, the fight is an RNG battle.

Great insight, I was trying to understand this myself and was not fully sure of all the factors leading to the kubel beating the m3. That is why I kept my comment pretty open ended. Your input plus some of the other input from other members clarifies things.

That's exactly the problem, it's a delusion. No side should have an advantage early game, because without an early game, there is no mid or late game. Which turns Company of Heroes 2 into Company of Spam the Most OP Early shit we can get and make the other team rage quit... Kind of a reach for a point but I think I made it stick.

So axis should have an equal early game and a far superior late game?

Yep, sounds balanced.

So axis should have an equal early game and a far superior late game?

Yep, sounds balanced.

I think late game can be adjusted to where all sides are happy. In a 1v1 or eve some 2v2 scenarios medium tanks will have a hard time vs German heavies.


The point is to wolf-pack and swarm.

That's exactly the problem, it's a delusion. No side should have an advantage early game, because without an early game, there is no mid or late game. Which turns Company of Heroes 2 into Company of Spam the Most OP Early shit we can get and make the other team rage quit... Kind of a reach for a point but I think I made it stick.

no sides should have a late game advancement?
it's called assymetric balance.

u guys r sick!
I become mad coz all of u guys! Once u guys yell that thingi needs some buff then again yell those thingi needs some nerf! then u guys troll about relic...

grow up guys!

Ok, let me simplify things for you a little. Relic took this thing from a dog and tuned into a bull. That's exactly how not to balance units. The first step should have been to fix its pathing problems and move forward from there in steps. Now, and like they did with other units before, they will end up nerfing this unit in 1 or 2 patches.

Ok, let me simplify things for you a little. Relic took this thing from a dog and tuned into a bull. That's exactly how not to balance units. The first step should have been to fix its pathing problems and move forward from there in steps. Now, and like they did with other units before, they will end up nerfing this unit in 1 or 2 patches.

They may nerf it, because of idiots whining of it.

I believe you are one of those claiming the past Katyusha was fine hur?

They may nerf it, because of idiots whining of it.

I believe you are one of those claiming the past Katyusha was fine hur?

check position on katyusha

......kubel the perfect example of an over powered unit. I just wonder how long it will take relic to fix this mess. Judging by the last mess (katyusha) it might be soon hopefully.

perhaps u are one of the:

idiots whining

?

check position on katyusha



perhaps u are one of the:



?

Abdul there are a number of posters on this forum who seem to like arguing over discussing the actual game. I've found your posts to be backed by logical thought, if these individuals try to engage you by insulting you etc. you are best to ignore them! They'll end up dragging you down to their level i.e. insulting back and forth.

It might be over preforming a bit at the moment, but gosh darn if this thing isn't fun to use now. I know that's not a consideration when discussing balance but I really enjoy using the Kubel post patch. It's just very satisfying.

That being said, a well microed kubel kind of takes the wind out of the early game American sails and for a faction that relies so heavily on it's early game due to crap late game... well, it's kind of like a kick in the balls for the Amis.

I don't want to see the kubel nerfed though. I'd rather see a buff to the Ami's late game in the form of better zooks for reliable infantry based AT or a better pak howitzer (for blob control) or something instead of nerfing this unit which is such a joy to use now.

And they will defeat you with experience!!
AND close the thread

The only thing this thread needs now is a comparative between old kubel and new kubel and we are done.

Just wondering how many games you lose/win with a Kubel in your early BO since the last patch.

Many people here say the unit is fine but what fine does means? giving you a 100% victories strike, 80% or 50%?

As USF player, since the patch I won about less than 30% of my games in 1vs1 and 10% of my 2vs2, easy 1 over 10 games, dropped from 800 to 1900.

I played vs Xeno on a 2vs2 - river map, USF-Sov / OKW-OKW and we faced 4 kubels, yes they made 2 kubels each, we never had the opportunity to take one single fuel point. Next, one of them rushed Puma to counter any eventual T2 (lol how could we with no fuel) and we where sitting in our starting zone. It took barely 10 minutes to end the game, I made it last a bit longer by popping AT guns.

My Sov partner took one kubel with a M3, next, with no fuel facing the 3 last ones... no chance at all.

I'm not really blaming players, same the one who pushed me with his truck and suppress with the kubel - lovely - and we ended the game in 10 minutes. But Relic who day after days show me how amateurs they are in every single aspect of that game and everything around it.