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Stormpioneers post patch

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Greeb
10 Sep 2014, 11:33 AM
#21
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jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2014, 11:11 AMMarcoRossolini
Sturmpios were okayish last patch, haven't had a chance to play them this patch but IMO they only needed a tiny tone down in terms of DPS so they didn't eat enemies quite as effectively, this seems a bit too far.


Sturmpios' problem is that they raped all soviet non-doctrinal infantry, forcing soviets to spam maxim/sniper. But that should have been fixed buffing conscripts and penals.

Now sturmpios are nerfed, penals are the same and conscripts are even worse. Instead of fixing one problem, they created one more.
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IpKaiFung
10 Sep 2014, 12:27 PM
#24
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Sierra
10 Sep 2014, 12:30 PM
#25
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So here we can see by IpKai's graph that the Sturmpioneers did in fact receive a devastating nerf to overall effectiveness, thereby making them useless.
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Strummingbird
10 Sep 2014, 12:35 PM
#26
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The odd thing is, Relic implied they would shift the Sturm's optimal range towards mid and away from short, from the patch notes, but the graphs just show a straight-up nerf in all ranges between point blank and max range.
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Katitof
10 Sep 2014, 12:40 PM
#27
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jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2014, 12:30 PMSierra
So here we can see by IpKai's graph that the Sturmpioneers did in fact receive a devastating nerf to overall effectiveness, thereby making them useless.


Lets keep ignoring they didn't received survivability buff!
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Greeb
10 Sep 2014, 12:45 PM
#28
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jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2014, 12:30 PMSierra
So here we can see by IpKai's graph that the Sturmpioneers did in fact receive a devastating nerf to overall effectiveness, thereby making them useless.


Not useless at all, but maybe such nerf was unnecesary.
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IpKaiFung
10 Sep 2014, 12:45 PM
#29
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jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2014, 12:30 PMSierra
So here we can see by IpKai's graph that the Sturmpioneers did in fact receive a devastating nerf to overall effectiveness, thereby making them useless.


When compared against other weapons they are still very powerful, they also had a reduced received accuracy modifier applied to them which increases their survivability. The modifier reduces damage from small arms sources by 0.87 which is quite significant.

A conscript squad for example at max range deals 4.38 dps however while shooting at a sturmpioneer squad they will only deal 3.81 dps.
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Sierra
10 Sep 2014, 12:48 PM
#30
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jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2014, 12:40 PMKatitof
Lets keep ignoring they didn't received survivability buff!


Oh right, I forgot guys, Katitof is slow in the head.

I'll put it in all bold and caps in pretty colors so you understand.


SURVIVABILITY DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE COMPLETE LACK OF ABILITY TO DO DAMAGE OUTSIDE OF HUGGING DISTANCE, THE ONLY EXCEPTION IN THIS CASE IS SHOCKTROOPS WHO HAVE 1.5 ARMOR AND SMOKE GRENADES AS WELL AS FRAG GRENADES AND CAN LITERALLY OUT TANK A 222 ARMORED CAR!

Does that get through your skull now?
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TensaiOni
10 Sep 2014, 12:56 PM
#31
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jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2014, 12:48 PMSierra


Oh right, I forgot guys, Katitof is slow in the head.

I'll put it in all bold and caps in pretty colors so you understand.


SURVIVABILITY DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE COMPLETE LACK OF ABILITY TO DO DAMAGE OUTSIDE OF HUGGING DISTANCE, THE ONLY EXCEPTION IN THIS CASE IS SHOCKTROOPS WHO HAVE 1.5 ARMOR AND SMOKE GRENADES AS WELL AS FRAG GRENADES AND CAN LITERALLY OUT TANK A 222 ARMORED CAR!

Does that get through your skull now?


If being better than most infantry is "lack of ability to do damage" in your eyes, then I don't really know what are you looking for in units to consider them good - constant 40 dps across all ranges?

Also, if you use Sturmpioneers like an SMG unit (at "hugging range") - sorry, but you are doing it wrong.

And the last thing, while I often disagree with what Katitof says, he does have a point here - you can't ignore the pretty significant survivability buff they got.
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Greeb
10 Sep 2014, 12:59 PM
#32
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@Sierra, you should try conscripts to see what is really a useless unit.
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Sierra
10 Sep 2014, 13:00 PM
#33
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jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2014, 12:59 PMGreeb
@Sierra, you should try conscripts to see what is really a useless unit.


Hm.... I see your conscript challenge, and raise you a Volksgrenadier...and old Ostruppen.

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2014, 12:56 PMTensaiOni
Also, if you use Sturmpioneers like an SMG unit (at "hugging range") - sorry, but you are doing it wrong.


Actually I used them at mid-range to close-range, they were beaten by conscripts and combat engineers, despite being at mid range and behind cover... the Soviet units standing out in the open.
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TensaiOni
10 Sep 2014, 13:09 PM
#34
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Posts: 198

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2014, 13:00 PMSierra

Actually I used them at mid-range to close-range, they were beaten by conscripts and combat engineers, despite being at mid range and behind cover... the Soviet units standing out in the open.


Then you were either pretty unlucky or you're lying.
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FrikadelleXXL
10 Sep 2014, 13:12 PM
#35
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Posts: 390

Permanently Banned
Agree with Sierra. Everytime I see Sturmpioneers, they lose against everything. Totally overnerfed and useless now. #ggrelic
http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198011483718
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AchtAchter
10 Sep 2014, 13:14 PM
#36
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Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3

Updated the post with Ipkai's image.

Like I said in the beginning post. The survivability buff is no excuse for the hefty dps nerf. For a flanking and offensive unit the dps is more important than the survivability.
They work in synergy with volks, volks take the damage, Sturmpios do the damage. Like a spear and a shield.
Their name implies their role - storm and break the enemy lines.
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu

Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here

Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
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Sierra
10 Sep 2014, 13:17 PM
#37
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Posts: 432

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2014, 13:09 PMTensaiOni
Then you were either pretty unlucky or you're lying.


Pretty sure I can consistently make it happen. I may be many things, a half-troll, a stupidly serious and pragmatic brick wall of a person, an Axis purist player. That said I am NOT a liar.
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JohnnyB
10 Sep 2014, 13:22 PM
#38
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Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

people forget what is the base of OKW build. They need crack troops in order to compensate the vehicles handicap. If we give them Ostheer-like infantry units, we can say good bye to balance. Sturmpios are just one example. What about the Obersoldaten armor conversion tu "received accuracy", and so on.
For better understanding, for people playing mostly with soviets: imagine you will have to play this faction - which is spam-based - without spaming anything. Wouldn't be a little... unplayable?
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
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Jaigen
10 Sep 2014, 13:36 PM
#39
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Posts: 1130

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2014, 12:20 PMGreeb

Great contribution to the discussion. :thumb:


Your whining has not contributed anything so far. you cannot win from the sp that your own fault.
horrida flamma bella
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