Conscripts post 9/9 patch

I think the idea is that the soviets have call in infantry to supplement their army. Grens also get rolled by armor in the same way that all other infantry do, and they lose to shocks and LMG rifles as well. The only difference is their effective range is much longer so it is easier for them to engage/disengage from bad situations.


Also, you guys....try penals, get to min range and watch the health bar drop. At vet 2 you get oorah, and you'd be surprised at all the funny shit you can do with sachels. Also, snipers and m3 in the same tier make it great fun. Volks, sturms, and grens all saw a tone down in close range DPS, where penals shine. Give them a shot

shit I just realize I had a typo in my post!!! I really meant to say "nobody wants cons to be like grens". sorry for the confusion!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Relic chose an interesting direction for infantry small arms balance in this patch.

There is a lot in there they havent usually done, such as a full spectrum range accuracy optimisatiin and afew odd balls like aimtime and adjusting what what constitutes "near/mid/far". Especially in conjunction with LMG changes, I think this laid a good groundwork for future adjusting.

Much of it seems to be built on the premise that long range was too efficient, and short range too risky. So they ended up nerfing long range, whilst increasing mid range pretty much across the board, and also increasing what constitutes short range dor those units who have that as their optimum.

Many of the figures seem a bit arbitrary, but they can be tuned later.

I honestly dont understand what the crying about is in this thread, and tbh I see very few people actually talking about the stats, instead of the usual hyperbole and "feels like" subjective crap.

There is really very little here in this thread that can be discussed or argued objectively, because it is expressed so subjectively without reference to stats or the actual changes.

yeah I think this is a good place to start restructuring infantry combat. I like how LMGs were toned down because previously, they excelled at all ranges. Good SMG changes as well because previously, you had to be literally in their face to do damage.

You bring up an interesting point here Cannonade about stats and objectivity. Obviously, it is good to bring stats and numbers to see what the actual changes/differences are. However, I want to note that we are playing a game. Numbers manifest themselves into a different gaming experience for everyone. The experience is subjective, unless the changes were so obvious anyone could see it. These tiny changes in numbers PLUS RNG make every experience different. Numbers and stats don't capture many different factors such as: ease of use, different metas and strategies, and most importantly, the relationship between units and their native/opposing factions. This is why I think subjective experiences are important regardless if they have numbers or not. We all experience the game in different ways and it is important to take account of them all.

We are on page 6 - and it hurts me to watch this internecine strife. I will show my bias,FWIW - there are highly intelligent posters arguing pro and con, and they have valid PoVs- could you all- please, for the love of Relic- just adjust a little,guys? And show some respect to each other, even if you do not agree with each other? I hate intervening in threads where I know you can work it out, with some forbearance for each other.

I mean: none of you are Lolcakes,for God's sake, (though you may think differently)

I always thought that weapons crews and conscripts should've been largely identical. ATGs have specific bonuses crewing ATGs, mortars for mortars, mgs for mgs.

I also thought that the soviets should've had the abandon weapon ability, or simply abandon weapons on retreat, allowing to have for mortar teams without mortars, etc, functioning exactly like conscripts. And for soviets, squads wouldn't get split when recrewing, but the whole squad would join the crew.

Then the 6man squads of everything the soviets had would make more sense, and allow for conscripts to be a universal function of the soviet army: moving from weapon to weapon, with unit preservation being all the more important.

The numbers don't lie really, you hit 3v3 or 4v4 automatcher and the vast majority of the time it's going to be 80% plus searching axis.

Also, I've used the new Tank Hunter doctrine quite a lot recently and to call it that is a joke. It need to be called light vehicle hunter. After minute 8 when P4's start rolling out it's completely useless. Would any axis like to swap their shrek for a PTRS? Didn't think so.

Heartless comparing conscripts to falls, obers, and JLI is like calling for volks to be buffed because shocks arrive at 2 cp. Your comment about 8 minute obers is just unreasonable. Please show me a replay where your doing that because in all reality it takes around 10 minutes to get T4 up, and besdies, you would have been better off rushing a luchs anyway.

I'll admit that the conscript ppsh upgrade feels really, really lackluster at the moment, and I would like to see that give cons the ability to scale late game. In no way should vanilla cons to stand up to LMG grens/obers like everyone keeps comparing them too.



Good points!

To your comment about at nades, they have a high % chance to pen from the rear of medium vehicles, and a decent chance against heavy armor, although this is much less reliable. Also, bleeding a few conscript models to snare a vehicle is almost always worth it. AT nades/fausts are one of the strongest abilities in the game and cannot be overlooked, especially so with regards to conscripts that have oorah to help get in position.

Your point about molos is spot on and now that mass (4 plus) conscripts are less viable and I'm usually only building 1-2 of them per game, I almost never tech molos.

My comment on durability applies more than just to their received accuracy. Oorah can get you out of sticky situations or to reposition and the 6 models prevent random wipes from things like AOE explosions in general. So yes, the received accuracy does hurt and cons feel a lot weaker now, I just think we should be a little hesitant to call for buffs to a unit that can quickly get out of hand.

I think the conscript ppsh upgrade should serve to make cons a viable front line unit, as there are no commanders that include all of ppsh upgrade, shocks/guards and a late game heavy.





Also, penals and shocks are pretty beast now, guards felt the nerf bat pretty hard, but button can still be useful in a pinch.

Unreasonable Eh?

http://www.coh2.org/replay/24115/replay-or-it-didnt-happen-for-festivelongjohns

Edit: And since I am quotting you for others that TLDR

I am not comparing Conscripts to Obers Falls or JLI. I am saying when Obers, Falls and JLI show up Conscripts are completly and totally a bleed. And trying to dispel the MYTH that this happens late game. As you can see I wouldnt really call 8 Mins late game.

Soviets and US need a HUGE AT buff.

That's all

Soviets and US need a HUGE AT buff.

That's all

Just changes to late game at is needed. i wouldn't change early or mid. This could be anything from changing tanks, AT infantry, at guns, build times, etc.

Soviets and US need a HUGE AT buff.

That's all

this

No, they don't.

No, they don't.

Tell me which of these AT weapons are superior to its axis counterpart:

ATnade ---- Faust
ZiS ---- Pak
DPRS ---- Panzerschreck
T34/76 ----- PzIV
SU76 ----- ??? Stug?
SU85 ----- Panther

And now, tell me which soviet tanks have better armor and penetration than its axis counterparts.
It's funny how the faction with the most powerful tanks has the most powerful AT weapons.

Even more, let me know which soviet infantry is better than its axis counterpart. Probably ONLY shocks, which are a short range units with 0 AT capabilities.
ALL non-doctrinal axis units are better than its soviet counterpart, and you still deny that they are balanced...

Well, enjoy then your sniper/maxim spam, you certainly deserve it, as you are the first one who doesn't want balance in this game.

Tell me which of these AT weapons are superior to its axis counterpart:

ATnade ---- Faust
ZiS ---- Pak
DPRS ---- Panzerschreck
T34/76 ----- PzIV
SU76 ----- ??? Stug?
SU85 ----- Panther

And now, tell me which soviet tanks have better armor and penetration than its axis counterparts.
It's funny how the faction with the most powerful tanks has the most powerful AT weapons.

Even more, let me know which soviet infantry is better than its axis counterpart. Probably ONLY shocks, which are a short range units with 0 AT capabilities.
ALL non-doctrinal axis units are better than its soviet counterpart, and you still deny that they are balanced...

Well, enjoy then your sniper/maxim spam, you certainly deserve it, as you are the first one who doesn't want balance in this game.

IS-2 has better armor and penatration,
but the normal allies at has less penatration than the axis counterpart

But that is doctrinal tank

Are the ZiS guns still bugged to take 125% incoming accuracy? Everytime I play them now they seem to get decrewed in seconds. Then the Tigers come rolling in and I'm left with little dedicated AT.

That's the biggest hole I'm feeling right now when playing Soviets.

Are the ZiS guns still bugged to take 125% incoming accuracy? Everytime I play them now they seem to get decrewed in seconds. Then the Tigers come rolling in and I'm left with little dedicated AT.

That's the biggest hole I'm feeling right now when playing Soviets.

yes. they got a received accuracy penalty in the latest patch, a "feature" that no other at gun gets

IS-2 has better armor and penatration

IS2 is doctrinal.
If you see people still playing soviets is because their doctrinal units are still decent. But that locks them in only 2 or 3 doctrines making them absolutely predictable, being shocks + ISU/IS2 a must.

Are the ZiS guns still bugged to take 125% incoming accuracy?

Are you sure it's a bug? Conscripts received an equally stupid nerf and it wasn't a bug.

So what exactly do conscripts do that makes them attract bullets?

God I wish I could draw...


A Did the stupid Ruskies eat alot of high powered magnets?

or B they run around the battlefield wildly jumping up and down allowing clearer shots?

LOL just LOL at this patch.

So what exactly do conscripts do that makes them attract bullets?

God I wish I could draw...


A Did the stupid Ruskies eat alot of high powered magnets?

or B they run around the battlefield wildly jumping up and down allowing clearer shots?

LOL just LOL at this patch.

because they are Slavs. And we all know Slavs are genetically inferior to the Aryan Ubermensch

So what exactly do conscripts do that makes them attract bullets?

There is a game, tabletop game, called Flames of War (somtimes I get the impression, that someone from Relic definitely plays it. Even would be curious to find out) It's WWII wargame.
They have implemented some mechanic, that all infantry's shooting at the same level. However Veteran troops are more experienced in using cover on the battlefield, so it's easier to hit less experienced Conscripts, than Veteran squad.

Definitely looks our case.