Conscripts post 9/9 patch

Instead of being infantry that are supported by snipers or Maxims. They are simply support for Snipers or Maxims. They arent and have not been since WFA anything more then a support squad.

That's how they are suppossed to be used. That's how we're using them before Maxims got buffed and that's how I have always used them as I hate cheesy tactics and never built more than two HMG squads.

Now people are using this excuse that as SU player you're forced to spam Maxims but that's not true. Soviet combined arms are as potent as OH ones. People are simply using strats that will bring them victory with minimal effort.

That's how they are suppossed to be used. That's how we're using them before Maxims got buffed and that's how I have always used them as I hate cheesy tactics and never built more than two HMG squads.

Now people are using this excuse that as SU player you're forced to spam Maxims but that's not true. Soviet combined arms are as potent as OH ones. People are simply using strats that will bring them victory with minimal effort.

My old Build was Script T2 Maxim Script Maxim Script Script. Now the Scripts are just a hindrance. I also utilized it with Advanced warfare. No STs no Guards. This tactic DOES NOT WORK due to Scripts being the weak link. They cannot effectively defend the Maxims against every Tom Dick and Harry popping out of any and all ambient buildings.

Without Maxim support they too just get face melted. The current Meta is Conscript Adverse.

They are just Vet dispensers. You folks need to stop assuming you know how I used Scripts. Now its just better to cover down your Maxim with another Maxims in case of a Partisan on Roids attack. Thus SPAM THINE MAXIMS. Its safer and cheaper and more effective.

Trying to justify the worst performance of conscripts in the past year is silly. They are undeniably terrible. Its akin to trying to force Ostheer to rely soley on Pios until they can call in Some Agrens...its retarded.

Scripts suffer the same fate that Kubel or M3. Although they can be useful in the very early game, they can't scale at all and from midgame onwards they're just a nuisance.

The difference is that you only need one Kubel or one M3, but you need at least 3 conscripts to do something. Thats a 720 MP investment + ATnades + Molotovs. Close to 1000 MP and 50 Fuel for a unit that can't even fight when your enemy reaches 2 CP and starts calling elite infantry. Even more, you must add the cost of reinforcing them, as they die like flies.

It's not strange that most soviet players prefer to struggle with maxims or snipers in the early game and use Shocks as basic infantry. At least maxims and snipers are useful all the game and don't bleed manpower like crazy.
Choosing Maxim/Sniper spam it's not the easy road to victory that OztheWizard claims.
Against equal skilled enemies, making conscripts is a big handicap right now that seriously affects your chances of winning.

I was a T1 player too, with conscripts+penals as the backbone of my build, but right now is stupid to play like that. Midgame, you feel like you're playing with ostruppen against an army of shocktroopers.

EDIT: Funny thing, now conscripts are thought to fight at mid range in cover, but their only upgrades are the short range PPsH or the overnerfed and useless ability Hit the Dirt. None of them seems to combine well with their new stats.

Scripts suffer the same fate that Kubel or M3. Although they can be useful in the very early game, they can't scale at all and from midgame onwards they're just a nuisance.

The difference is that you only need one Kubel or one M3, but you need at least 3 conscripts to do something. Thats a 720 MP investment + ATnades + Molotovs. Close to 1000 MP and 50 Fuel for a unit that can't even fight when your enemy reaches 2 CP and starts calling elite infantry. Even more, you must add the cost of reinforcing them, as they die like flies.

It's not strange that most soviet players prefer to struggle with maxims or snipers in the early game and use Shocks as basic infantry. At least maxims and snipers are useful all the game and don't bleed manpower like crazy.
Choosing Maxim/Sniper spam it's not the easy road to victory that OztheWizard claims.
Against equal skilled enemies, making conscripts is a big handicap right now that seriously affects your chances of winning.

I was a T1 player too, with conscripts+penals as the backbone of my build, but right now is stupid to play like that. Midgame, you feel like you're playing with ostruppen against an army of shocktroopers.

EDIT: Funny thing, now conscripts are thought to fight at mid range in cover, but their only upgrades are the short range PPsH or the overnerfed and useless ability Hit the Dirt. None of them seems to combine well with their new stats.

I think since WFA came out Relic are really having trouble with trying to figure out the Soviet faction and certain units. Since WFA, long range dps has gone up and up. conscripts were designed for close range dps and now they are trying to back track on that with strange results.

I think since WFA came out Relic are really having trouble with trying to figure out the Soviet faction and certain units. Since WFA, long range dps has gone up and up. conscripts were designed for close range dps and now they are trying to back track on that with strange results.

The high number of elite infantry units with long range DPS or that spawn from buildings are the things that I hate the most since WFA came.

I also think that Relic is losing the soviet and Ost balance each day more and more, probably on purpose, as they want to sell more WFA keys.
Most of the soviet core units are in a pathetic state with T0, T3 and T4 being absolutely useless and out of the meta right now.

http://www.twitch.tv/relicentertainment/b/567569238?t=36m45s

Thank you for this video that talks about the changes to conscripts.

They stated that they added the received accuracy nerf to force conscripts to be in cover, This is idiotic because conscripts died fast prepatch regardless if they were in cover or not

They stated that they added the received accuracy nerf to force conscripts to be in cover, This is idiotic because conscripts died fast prepatch regardless if they were in cover or not

Yeah, it's moronic because that "stay in cover" strategy doesn't fit in at all with Orahh, PPsH and molotovs.

A unit whose best DPS range is achieved in close combat, with abilities to get fast to short range and deny enemy cover is now forced to stay long/mid range in cover, when barely all enemy infantry exceed them in mid/long range.

Yes, it's an absolute stupid change. Another proof that Relic doesn't have a clue about what to do with the soviet faction.

exactly, if they want to make a faction based on throwaway infantry, there needs to be a replacement infantry unit at the later game. like volks to grens. if not there must be scaling to make them viable in the later games. right now its all punishment for conscripts and their upgrades all cost a huge sum while only being situational.

conscripts arent bad as a utility unit, but soviets need a real infantry combat unit.

guards are the closest thing to mind, too bad they are doctrinal and costs quite abit to upgrade and perform acceptably against infantry.

Heartless comparing conscripts to falls, obers, and JLI is like calling for volks to be buffed because shocks arrive at 2 cp. Your comment about 8 minute obers is just unreasonable. Please show me a replay where your doing that because in all reality it takes around 10 minutes to get T4 up, and besdies, you would have been better off rushing a luchs anyway.

I'll admit that the conscript ppsh upgrade feels really, really lackluster at the moment, and I would like to see that give cons the ability to scale late game. In no way should vanilla cons to stand up to LMG grens/obers like everyone keeps comparing them too.

That's all well and good in theory. In practice and against decent opposition, AT nades only work against poorly microed vehicles (and Axis vehicles have usually superior Ai DPS allowing them to bleed conscripts on approach), molotovs have some of the lowest damage and longest animation of any grenade (with a price tag no less), their ''durability'' is kinda shat on by being the only infantry squad with a negative received accuracy modifier, and 6 men don't help you much when their DPS scales fairly poorly and they bleed like snuffed pigs as soon as any decent AI weapon is pointed their way.

Meanwhile, even with the LMG nerfs grenadiers can easily stand up to anything save Shocks and upgraded paras. You can very much use grens as your only mainline infantry if you support them with Mgs and vehicles. Doing that with conscripts is sub par at best since they bleed far more manpower, and suicidal at worst since your infantry fires peashooters at anything with veterancy.

The game has changed a lot since the (brief) window of conscript spam. OKW late game has no problem pounding any infantry to dust with their own elite troops, and Ostheer has access to two really good infantry units, now that PGrens are buffed as they should be. Making conscripts less shit late game certainly wouldn't change the meta in any significant way.

What I find curious, is that for all three other factions spamming their basic infantry is a valid and usually effective strategy. But if Soviets can do it, suddenly it's OP and faceroll? Come on.

Good points!

To your comment about at nades, they have a high % chance to pen from the rear of medium vehicles, and a decent chance against heavy armor, although this is much less reliable. Also, bleeding a few conscript models to snare a vehicle is almost always worth it. AT nades/fausts are one of the strongest abilities in the game and cannot be overlooked, especially so with regards to conscripts that have oorah to help get in position.

Your point about molos is spot on and now that mass (4 plus) conscripts are less viable and I'm usually only building 1-2 of them per game, I almost never tech molos.

My comment on durability applies more than just to their received accuracy. Oorah can get you out of sticky situations or to reposition and the 6 models prevent random wipes from things like AOE explosions in general. So yes, the received accuracy does hurt and cons feel a lot weaker now, I just think we should be a little hesitant to call for buffs to a unit that can quickly get out of hand.

I think the conscript ppsh upgrade should serve to make cons a viable front line unit, as there are no commanders that include all of ppsh upgrade, shocks/guards and a late game heavy.





Also, penals and shocks are pretty beast now, guards felt the nerf bat pretty hard, but button can still be useful in a pinch.

If you have a dump and take another dump next to it, the first one won't magically smell like flowers and turn into chocolate.
You'll simply have 2 dumps.

Well maybe yours don't

Long john you need to work on your reading comprehension. You seen to struggle there. I will get you my next super fast ober replay.

Again I am comparing the effectiveness of using conscripts as core infantry for the early game myth you just brought up. Obers JLI and falls are mid game units. This means scripts don't get scale out late game but early mid game or sooner with clever use of sturmpios.

This means scripts are as useful as a T34/76 to use another shitty unit as comparison . Which is why the hated meta is what it is. And will continue to be until they are no longer a liability. T34 or t34:85. Conscript or Macim spam? People will naturally gravitate to useful and cost effective over situational and economic drains.

It boggles my damn mind why anyone who plays this game thinks a faction with the majority of its non doctrinal units are horrible is ok. Good thing for me is I don't have to play them anymore and can get my non linear teching fix from OKW.

Good points!

To your comment about at nades, they have a high % chance to pen from the rear of medium vehicles, and a decent chance against heavy armor, although this is much less reliable. Also, bleeding a few conscript models to snare a vehicle is almost always worth it. AT nades/fausts are one of the strongest abilities in the game and cannot be overlooked, especially so with regards to conscripts that have oorah to help get in position.

Your point about molos is spot on and now that mass (4 plus) conscripts are less viable and I'm usually only building 1-2 of them per game, I almost never tech molos.

My comment on durability applies more than just to their received accuracy. Oorah can get you out of sticky situations or to reposition and the 6 models prevent random wipes from things like AOE explosions in general. So yes, the received accuracy does hurt and cons feel a lot weaker now, I just think we should be a little hesitant to call for buffs to a unit that can quickly get out of hand.

I think the conscript ppsh upgrade should serve to make cons a viable front line unit, as there are no commanders that include all of ppsh upgrade, shocks/guards and a late game heavy.

Also, penals and shocks are pretty beast now, guards felt the nerf bat pretty hard, but button can still be useful in a pinch.

The thing is, while AT nades are good and synergize well with Oooorah, a player that decently microes and/or supports their vehicle will be able to drive away while the main gun/pintle MG on his Panzer drops your (newly nerfed in durability) conscripts down to size. I still usually get them because they are usable in urban maps or when using mines/Truesight ambushes, but they alone don't justify the conscript's poor performance.

Ooorah is a good ability, that's for certain, but past the mid game it's pretty much only used to run away from scary stuff like PGrens or Obers. Charging in, with all the AI firepower being thrown around late game, is just asking to be MP bled at best, and to lose the squad at worst.

As for PPShs, the problem remains the same; it doesn't change that conscripts are too fragile to be a credible combat unit mid-late game. And Relic has made this issue worse. I don't want the upgrade to turn conscripts into Shocks, but I would like to increase its price (to 60-70) in favor of giving a durability upgrade, either in received accuracy or a 8 man squad perhaps. Currently the upgrade is cheap, but won't make your conscripts any less likely to be cut down on approach. And they still lose to most elite Axis infantry anyway even if they manage to close in.

Guards are good, yeah, but Penals? Honestly, if I make them work it's thanks to M3 and sniper support, followed by an early T-34. By themselves, they are a close range squad that doesn't do enough damage to justify the risks and losses you take while charging them. The flamer helps, and on urban maps they can shine, but their lack of any viable grenade and no AT means you pretty much have to win the game early if you use them. Because unless you get guards, you have no At whatsoever unless you backtech to T2 ot wait until you amass 200+ fuel for a tank/SU. I find that 2 (sometimes 3) cons 2 maxims into AT guns/shocks is much more reliable.

Heartless comparing conscripts to falls, obers, and JLI is like calling for volks to be buffed because shocks arrive at 2 cp. Your comment about 8 minute obers is just unreasonable. Please show me a replay where your doing that because in all reality it takes around 10 minutes to get T4 up, and besdies, you would have been better off rushing a luchs anyway.

I'll admit that the conscript ppsh upgrade feels really, really lackluster at the moment, and I would like to see that give cons the ability to scale late game. In no way should vanilla cons to stand up to LMG grens/obers like everyone keeps comparing them too.



Good points!

To your comment about at nades, they have a high % chance to pen from the rear of medium vehicles, and a decent chance against heavy armor, although this is much less reliable. Also, bleeding a few conscript models to snare a vehicle is almost always worth it. AT nades/fausts are one of the strongest abilities in the game and cannot be overlooked, especially so with regards to conscripts that have oorah to help get in position.


Your point about molos is spot on and now that mass (4 plus) conscripts are less viable and I'm usually only building 1-2 of them per game, I almost never tech molos.

My comment on durability applies more than just to their received accuracy. Oorah can get you out of sticky situations or to reposition and the 6 models prevent random wipes from things like AOE explosions in general. So yes, the received accuracy does hurt and cons feel a lot weaker now, I just think we should be a little hesitant to call for buffs to a unit that can quickly get out of hand.

I think the conscript ppsh upgrade should serve to make cons a viable front line unit, as there are no commanders that include all of ppsh upgrade, shocks/guards and a late game heavy.





Also, penals and shocks are pretty beast now, guards felt the nerf bat pretty hard, but button can still be useful in a pinch.

i understand your concern about making conscripts equal to grens. There was a big thread by Arclyte talking about conscripts that featured a lot of thoughts by other members. I think everyone was in agreement that cons shouldn't be exactly like grens. Everyone wanted some kind of late game buff that helped them out a bit.

and no, merge, at nade, and molotov are not tools that help cons scale into late game. they drastically lose effectiveness because of the appearance of heavy armor and high dps units. Cons will simply just bleed in attempting to do these abilities

i understand your concern about making conscripts equal to grens. There was a big thread by Arclyte talking about conscripts that featured a lot of thoughts by other members. I think everyone was in agreement that cons should be exactly like grens. Everyone wanted some kind of late game buff that helped them out a bit.

and no, merge, at nade, and molotov are not tools that help cons scale into late game. they drastically lose effectiveness because of the appearance of heavy armor and high dps units. Cons will simply just bleed in attempting to do these abilities

I think the idea is that the soviets have call in infantry to supplement their army. Grens also get rolled by armor in the same way that all other infantry do, and they lose to shocks and LMG rifles as well. The only difference is their effective range is much longer so it is easier for them to engage/disengage from bad situations.


Also, you guys....try penals, get to min range and watch the health bar drop. At vet 2 you get oorah, and you'd be surprised at all the funny shit you can do with sachels. Also, snipers and m3 in the same tier make it great fun. Volks, sturms, and grens all saw a tone down in close range DPS, where penals shine. Give them a shot

I think the idea is that the soviets have call in infantry to supplement their army. Grens also get rolled by armor in the same way that all other infantry do, and they lose to shocks and LMG rifles as well. The only difference is their effective range is much longer so it is easier for them to engage/disengage from bad situations.

So, pretty much Soviet players should only rely on commanders with Shocks and Guards, leaving all others out?
Having call-ins is not an answer.

Also, you guys....try penals, get to min range and watch the health bar drop. At vet 2 you get oorah, and you'd be surprised at all the funny shit you can do with sachels. Also, snipers and m3 in the same tier make it great fun. Volks, sturms, and grens all saw a tone down in close range DPS, where penals shine. Give them a shot

Until first Light vehicle hits the field.

So, pretty much Soviet players should only rely on commanders with Shocks and Guards, leaving all others out?
Having call-ins is not an answer.

Until first Light vehicle hits the field.

And this is my biggest turn off and why I quit playing soviets. Call ins are how Relic balanced them. I would like to be able to I don't know use NKVD and have a decent chance. Hell Charge 400 MP for Penals and turn them into Obers I don't care. Just stop forcing the damn call in meta it's terribly boring. And sure doesn't encourage new players to play the Soviet faction.

Relic chose an interesting direction for infantry small arms balance in this patch.

There is a lot in there they havent usually done, such as a full spectrum range accuracy optimisatiin and afew odd balls like aimtime and adjusting what what constitutes "near/mid/far". Especially in conjunction with LMG changes, I think this laid a good groundwork for future adjusting.

Much of it seems to be built on the premise that long range was too efficient, and short range too risky. So they ended up nerfing long range, whilst increasing mid range pretty much across the board, and also increasing what constitutes short range dor those units who have that as their optimum.

Many of the figures seem a bit arbitrary, but they can be tuned later.

I honestly dont understand what the crying about is in this thread, and tbh I see very few people actually talking about the stats, instead of the usual hyperbole and "feels like" subjective crap.

There is really very little here in this thread that can be discussed or argued objectively, because it is expressed so subjectively without reference to stats or the actual changes.

So, pretty much Soviet players should only rely on commanders with Shocks and Guards, leaving all others out?
Having call-ins is not an answer.

According to Relic it is. That's how the faction is designed atm, take it or leave it. Relic has acknowledged, in their most recent stream even, that they are looking at redesigning both the call in structure and the soviets in general.

Relic chose an interesting direction for infantry small arms balance in this patch.

There is a lot in there they havent usually done, such as a full spectrum range accuracy optimisatiin and afew odd balls like aimtime and adjusting what what constitutes "near/mid/far". Especially in conjunction with LMG changes, I think this laid a good groundwork for future adjusting.

Much of it seems to be built on the premise that long range was too efficient, and short range too risky. So they ended up nerfing long range, whilst increasing mid range pretty much across the board, and also increasing what constitutes short range dor those units who have that as their optimum.

Many of the figures seem a bit arbitrary, but they can be tuned later.

I honestly dont understand what the crying about is in this thread, and tbh I see very few people actually talking about the stats, instead of the usual hyperbole and "feels like" subjective crap.

There is really very little here in this thread that can be discussed or argued objectively, because it is expressed so subjectively without reference to stats or the actual changes.

Too much words to say nothing.

Explain us then why the received accuracy increase was needed in conscripts. Were they overperforming before to deserve such a nerf?

And any ability or upgrade that conscripts have fits with the new role Relic wants them to play.
They all are short range abilities, with the new received accuracy it's suicidal to try to approach to throw a molotov or ATgun.

relic has no idea what they want to do with soviets