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Panzergrenadier needs a buff

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HappyxX
5 Sep 2014, 03:10 AM
#1
avatar of HappyxX

Posts: 38

Hi, i have been playing Ostheer for a while and been thinking alot about the problems of the Panzergrenadiers.

First: i think they cost alot of manpower (340). I know there price got dropped from 360 to 340 but 20 mp isn't a very big difference.

Second: they die relatively fast on the battlefield vs rifleman but do a little bit better vs conscript. so i think an armor buff isn't a bad idea to do there high mp cost.

third: the only way they are truly effective is as an at unit support alongside a pak43 and p4's. But the panzershreck cost 120 munition so i would have to wait a while before i get that much munition since i have to pay 60 munition for the medic bunker and also get lmg's upgrade.

Those are the problems i have with the panzergrenadiers they aren't that effective on the battlefield do to there high mp cost and there low armor. so they are next to useless :(.

that's just my opinion on the panzergrenadier.
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__deleted__
5 Sep 2014, 04:12 AM
#2
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 29

Something I've thought would help PG play is buying one shrek at a time so that it's not 120 but 2x60. Also letting the g43 be two slots so 2x60 again.
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Arclyte
5 Sep 2014, 04:39 AM
#3
avatar of Arclyte

Posts: 692

giving them 1.2 armor or something would be fair
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VindicareX
5 Sep 2014, 04:44 AM
#4
avatar of VindicareX
Patrion 14

Posts: 312

They're bad. While their damage can be impressive, they more often than not get models sniped off to simple rifle fire (meaing they usually get forced off before they can make use of their good mid-close range damage). And with the high manpower cost and upkeep, you're better off just using grens or MGs.

Buff their armor or something so they don't die so easily and they will be fine.
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Omega_Warrior
5 Sep 2014, 04:54 AM
#5
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Sep 2014, 04:39 AMArclyte
giving them 1.2 armor or something would be fair
They already have a reduced accuracy modifier which does the same thing. Relic would just raise that instead of armor if they were going to buff it. Only shocktroopers have armor since they literally wear armor.
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butterfingers158
5 Sep 2014, 07:13 AM
#6
avatar of butterfingers158

Posts: 239

Pgrens are superior Sturmpios that cost 20 more manpower. They really don't need a buff, they're simply a victim of the LMG meta.
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austerlitz
5 Sep 2014, 07:18 AM
#7
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

Need 5 men with same DPS or seperate AI pzgren from AT pzgren and buff AI one with armor or more reduced accuracy.
In current state its worth 300 mp and 35 reinforce max ,no more.
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Kallipolan
5 Sep 2014, 08:18 AM
#8
avatar of Kallipolan

Posts: 196

I think the 4 man squads is the main issue. Losing a single squad member whilst closing on the enemy is just so punishing at the moment, and so difficult to avoid. Additionally, their high cost means the reinforce cost is absurdly high, so at the moment using them as assault troops simply results in manpower bleed.

They're still great AT with Panzerschrecks though, and my concern about buffing their survivability is that they become too much of a threat to tanks (especially medium tanks, which are already suffering a bit in the current meta). I mean, imagine how hard it would be to deal with Shock Troops if they had 2 Panzerschrecks.
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BartonPL
5 Sep 2014, 09:04 AM
#9
avatar of BartonPL

Posts: 2807 | Subs: 6

PG's are the most useless "elite" infantry in this game, they are very good in mid and close range but other inf units can counter them easily, even conscripts, their upgrade with dbl shreck is also retarded because unit then gain good AT stuff while it gets more useless vs inf.

I'd like to see reinforce cost reduced to like 35 (like all other elite infantry have), little boost in armor and single upgrade with shreck (up to 2 upgrades)
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Abdul
5 Sep 2014, 09:10 AM
#10
avatar of Abdul

Posts: 896

Try them at vet2, they gain 30% armor, which translates to 1.3 armor. I often get 1 pg elite vetted for that reason. It becomes a killing machine and often retreat it to heal before any single solider is killed. Very cost effective for 1 unit.
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Greeb
5 Sep 2014, 09:15 AM
#11
avatar of Greeb

Posts: 971

Maybe single schreck upgrade and smoke grenades will make PGs much more useful.

As said above LMG meta punishes heavily short range units. Conscripts have Oraah, and Shocks have smoke, perhaps Pgrens should have any ability to get at close range safely.
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Abdul
5 Sep 2014, 09:18 AM
#12
avatar of Abdul

Posts: 896

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Sep 2014, 04:12 AM__deleted__
Something I've thought would help PG play is buying one shrek at a time so that it's not 120 but 2x60. Also letting the g43 be two slots so 2x60 again.


g43 on pg just makes no sense in this current patch. You actually lose short range dps by getting this upgrade (from 14.805 per solider to 11.052) And you only gain a small bit on the long range (from 1.206 to 2.512).

I would never get g43 on pg in this current patch.

source: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApmrrrPr20ncdGF4VURuYjVGZXlIN3ptbV8tbzRzN0E&usp=drive_web#gid=0

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Sep 2014, 09:15 AMGreeb
Maybe single schreck upgrade and smoke grenades will make PGs much more useful.

As said above LMG meta punishes heavily short range units. Conscripts have Oraah, and Shocks have smoke, perhaps Pgrens should have any ability to get at close range safely.


This was requested before, but relic never agreed to it. In fact, in the beta it was possible to get a single shrek for 60ammo.
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BartonPL
5 Sep 2014, 10:01 AM
#13
avatar of BartonPL

Posts: 2807 | Subs: 6

single shreck was for 70 munis i believe or maybe 75, then it has been changed to 120 for 2's
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austerlitz
5 Sep 2014, 10:08 AM
#14
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

Thing is if panzergrenadier stays redundant and lmgs get a nerf affecting grens,then ostheer is automatically finished as far as infantry is concerned.
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Greeb
5 Sep 2014, 10:29 AM
#15
avatar of Greeb

Posts: 971

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Sep 2014, 10:08 AMausterlitz
Thing is if panzergrenadier stays redundant and lmgs get a nerf affecting grens,then ostheer is automatically finished as far as infantry is concerned.


LMG nerf will affect every faction, and most probably PGrens will be buffed too.
I suppose that in next patch soviet & ostheer infantry will be buffed meanwhile WFA factions infantry will be slightly toned down.
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Katitof
5 Sep 2014, 10:34 AM
#16
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

It all comes down to rifles having bit too much long range DPS and LMGs overperforming.

Fix the cause of the problem first, not symptoms.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Cardboard Tank
5 Sep 2014, 11:36 AM
#17
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 978

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Sep 2014, 10:34 AMKatitof
It all comes down to rifles having bit too much long range DPS and LMGs overperforming.

Fix the cause of the problem first, not symptoms.
Panzergrenadiers are under-performing. Your solution: Nerf Grens... Take away the last reliable Ost infantry unit.

If you are serious about this, I´m just sad, not even angry.

Give Panzergrens less received accuracy, leave Grens and their LMG as they are and we are fine. After all it´s a 60 mun upgrade and the only reason they scale into the late game before getting squad wiped.
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Kreatiir
5 Sep 2014, 11:39 AM
#18
avatar of Kreatiir

Posts: 2819

I dont think they need a buff, long range just needs a nerf imo.
All posts made are about situations in 2v2's. Not a 1v1 player.
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Katitof
5 Sep 2014, 11:44 AM
#19
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Sep 2014, 11:36 AMCardboard Tank
Panzergrenadiers are under-performing. Your solution: Nerf Grens... Take away the last reliable Ost infantry unit.


I will tell you a secret, but don't tell it to anyone kk?

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Cardboard Tank
5 Sep 2014, 12:08 PM
#20
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 978

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Sep 2014, 11:44 AMKatitof


I will tell you a secret, but don't tell it to anyone kk?

Sure, but who will be affected the most by those LMG nerfs?

1) Ostheer, LMG Grens: The only combat-infantry unit used, backbone of every game. LMGs are a must have.

2) Soviets, Guards: Doctrinal, and even then I dont always upgrade them. Half of the games though, you dont use the DP at all.

3) USA, Rifles: Riflemen are the strongest standard infantry in the game, they are strong even without LMGs.

So through the backdoor you would nerf Ostheer - the weakest faction of the game - even further.
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