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Soviet Snipers Squad are not fun

31 Aug 2014, 11:21 AM
#21
avatar of Kronosaur0s

Posts: 1701



I was just pointing out that porygons reply made no sense. No unit in the game loses vet when reinforcing, yet he thought it would make sense for soviet snipers to lose vet when they reinforce.


I dont either think that is the solution. Remove sprint and remove -1 man, voila perfect.
31 Aug 2014, 11:23 AM
#22
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1



I dont either think that is the solution. Remove sprint and remove -1 man, voila perfect.


That would make the soviet sniper significantly worse than the axis sniper in every single way imaginable.
31 Aug 2014, 11:36 AM
#23
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702



That would make the soviet sniper significantly worse than the axis sniper in every single way imaginable.



I would just simply do this.

Make both snipers 80 hp, 1.0 armor stats, same rate of fire.

Soviet sniper is more fragile due to higher axis DPS, but also has more killing power due to lower axis squadsizes.

Axis sniper is more durable, but due to higher squad sizes, less killing power.
31 Aug 2014, 11:46 AM
#24
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1

You guys shouldnt nerf the Soviet Snipers to the ground just for the sake of it. There still needs to be some balance, and both Sniper units should stay viable.

The perfect solution imo would be to remove the sprint ability and up the reinforcement cost to about 120. Why to 120? Because 180 would be a little bit too harsh in my opinion.

German sniper should remain unchanged. He really is balanced right now. Most of you only look at his fragility, but not on his sheer killing potential. His firerate. It isnt too hard to keep your snipers alive. But it is easier with the Soviet faction. And im kinda ok with that, because the Soviet sniper also needs something he excels at.


The perfect solution imo would be to simply make both Snipers 1 man units and balance them with their stats, cloaking behaviour etc..

But i guess this will never happen...
31 Aug 2014, 12:01 PM
#25
avatar of FrikadelleXXL

Posts: 390

Permanently Banned
Guys guys... you don't want symmetrical balance do you? Because that's how you get symmetrical balance
31 Aug 2014, 13:15 PM
#26
avatar of zarok47

Posts: 587

You guys shouldnt nerf the Soviet Snipers to the ground just for the sake of it. There still needs to be some balance, and both Sniper units should stay viable.

The perfect solution imo would be to remove the sprint ability and up the reinforcement cost to about 120. Why to 120? Because 180 would be a little bit too harsh in my opinion.

German sniper should remain unchanged. He really is balanced right now. Most of you only look at his fragility, but not on his sheer killing potential. His firerate. It isnt too hard to keep your snipers alive. But it is easier with the Soviet faction. And im kinda ok with that, because the Soviet sniper also needs something he excels at.


The perfect solution imo would be to simply make both Snipers 1 man units and balance them with their stats, cloaking behaviour etc..

But i guess this will never happen...


His firerate is higher then the sov sniper since he is fighting larger squads.
Against ammericans (mostly with rifles)its an advvantage but not against most soviet squads.

As for being balanced, its too fragile. i've seen a consquad at near max range instagib the german sniper. Not to mention all the other fun stuff that can kill it in 1 go (zis shot anyone?)

It needs abit more survivability if nothing else.

As for the sov sniper, the reinforcement increase might be the way to go, but it certainly needs to be more punihsing to lose 1 squadmember.
31 Aug 2014, 13:20 PM
#27
avatar of steel

Posts: 1963 | Subs: 1

Or so it would if the 221 wasn't 55 fuel away, which is a lot when your infantry get cut down right out the gate.
Rush for it. Snipers won't do anything to them if you get 221/222 early.
31 Aug 2014, 13:21 PM
#28
avatar of ShadowTreasurer

Posts: 122

Some of the suggestions here are rather extreme.

2 simple fixes is enough to balance snipers. The first is to remove sprint from soviet vet 1 snipers, and replace it with the flare (with a munition cost decrease to 45 or 50). And the second is to give she Ostheer sniper incendiary rounds at vet 0, and a reduced received accuracy bonus at vet 1 to give it more survivability.


+1

Sprint for a 2 man sniper squad is overkill survivibility.

Would be nice if an ostheer sniper could actually counter snipe with equal profit, while also increase the cost (+15 munis) and cool down of incendiary too.
1 Sep 2014, 05:18 AM
#29
avatar of atouba

Posts: 482

Just reduce soviet sniper to 1 member and have the same rate of fire with ostheer sniper. Done.
1 Sep 2014, 05:26 AM
#30
avatar of FestiveLongJohns
Patrion 15

Posts: 1157 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Sep 2014, 05:18 AMatouba
Just reduce soviet sniper to 1 member and have the same rate of fire with ostheer sniper. Done.


That would actually be a massive buff to the Soviet sniper due to the smaller German squad sizes.
1 Sep 2014, 05:39 AM
#31
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 818

The unit itself isnt the issue, i believe the problem lies in the weak counters available to the axis facions

The 221 needs to be a more durable and effective unit for coming so late in the game(compared to a flak trucks and pumas). Right now the unit could come out of tier 1 and still be quite balanced if the upgrade required tier 2. needs to be a more effective vehicle(will cost more)

The OKW flak truck should punish sniper strats but at the moment it is dying to penal satchels, at nades, guards, mines, maxims, partisans, at guns and any vehicle that isn't a scout car. Damage is great but it will die and often too soon

If these two units become more effective then we should look at snipers but right now the units that counter them...well aren't very good
1 Sep 2014, 05:39 AM
#32
avatar of ShadowTreasurer

Posts: 122

@atouba

Haven't you seen the realistic movie Enemy at the Gates? Soviet sniper always have to be in pairs, it's illogical and against faction design if it was any less.

The only major weakness of the 222 is that it comes out too late against M3 flamers. It dies to cheap soviet mines too easily, but get a minesweeper I suppose. Too bad that minesweeper pios basically can't get vet......
1 Sep 2014, 06:03 AM
#33
avatar of bämbabäm

Posts: 246

Haven't you seen the realistic movie Enemy at the Gates? Soviet sniper always have to be in pairs, it's illogical and against faction design if it was any less.


That's not an argument in the world of CoH. Tigers rear armor was 80% of its front armor, ingame it's 60%. Why? Game balance!
1 Sep 2014, 06:52 AM
#34
avatar of WhySooSerious

Posts: 1248

You can also see which tier your soviet opponent goes as well through the fog of war. You can see traces of the building.
1 Sep 2014, 07:22 AM
#35
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779

@atouba

Haven't you seen the realistic movie Enemy at the Gates? Soviet sniper always have to be in pairs, it's illogical and against faction design if it was any less.

The only major weakness of the 222 is that it comes out too late against M3 flamers. It dies to cheap soviet mines too easily, but get a minesweeper I suppose. Too bad that minesweeper pios basically can't get vet......


That movie is realistic? You serious?
1 Sep 2014, 07:23 AM
#36
avatar of FestiveLongJohns
Patrion 15

Posts: 1157 | Subs: 2



That movie is realistic? You serious?


Lol dude, get your sarcasm detector checked
1 Sep 2014, 07:38 AM
#37
avatar of Mortar
Donator 22

Posts: 559

In multi, try to sneak a sturm pio on the retreat path. Plant a mine or just wait.
1 Sep 2014, 07:45 AM
#38
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702

sadly, sniper spam is the only competitive strat soviets have.
1 Sep 2014, 07:52 AM
#39
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Sep 2014, 07:45 AMBurts
sadly, sniper spam is the only competitive strat soviets have.


Nice excuse, bro.
1 Sep 2014, 07:59 AM
#40
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702



Nice excuse, bro.




Nah, i don't even spam snipers myself, but from observation this is the only strategy that works consistently.
I go conscripts, M3s and then get t-34/76s. I substitute gaurds with m-42 mini anti tank guns. It's not a very good strategy, but it's alot more fun that spamming snipers and gaurds.
Cons, penals are so bad that they just bleed manpower to the point its not even worth having them vs OKW

M3s get easily countered by 6 minute pumas

maxims are somewhat competitive strat and gives you good map control in the early game, but later on in the game they simply get wiped by OKW infantry support guns and elite infantry againts decent players.


Shocks are decent, but gaurds are better in every way on most maps. Gaurds are pretty much core infantry for the soviets- great faction design when your core infantry is doctrinal.


soviet T4 is completely horrible, T3 is decent for t-34/76s , but completely overshadowed by t-34/85s which are cheaper than t-34/76s. ISU-152 works too on some 1v1 maps.

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