Okw Balance

I dont understand one think - why everyone (especially on official forums) screaming this or this OKW unit needs some nerf. Honestly, last month i saw all these topics:

Kubel OP (its great unit to counter snipers, if you didnt know)
Puma OP (it can kill T34)
Obers OP (They sometimes kill Shocks!!)
Flaktruck HQ OP (US has no mortar)
KT OP (it needs to be slower)
and finally Stuka OP (the rockets can insta gib squads)

I dont understand this, i am more like casual player and just start playing 2v2 and 1v1 recently, but i feel for Allies its way easier. What could do OKW players something agaisnt soviets if they make wall of maxim and zis, support with snipers etc, if they nerf Stuka which fires once per 2 minutes?

Or its just because those official forums are bit ridicilous and actually ppl on coh2.org talk more construcitve..

I think That their not as strong as most people seem to say in team games, just that its easier to reach their maximum potential.

To win as the allies you really have to manuever and flank to beat your opponent(unless you maxim spam) but as the axis head on engagements often favor you a little more.

Also the reduced fuel income can be quite the hinderence especially if you are facing medium tank spam against a player who is good at microing his vehicles and pushing around shrecks,

In short i think the faction is a little noob friendly in team games but in a higher level AT game i don't think they are too strong at all.

That being said I win an insanely high proportion of my Axis 4v4 games nowdays compared to the allies and im ranked higher with the allies(random teams)

I think only #2 is actually an issue.

The OKW panther performs fine against Soviet/USF medium stock tanks. It only starts to fail when you put it up against superior numbers of EZ8 and T34/85, which can be massed due to no teching cost.

OKW has plenty of infantry with very high anti-infantry DPS. Volks also scale a lot better than conscripts with nice veterancy bonus, a AT weapon upgrade, and grenades that don't require an upgrade. They also have a doctrinal ability that gives them assault grenades for only 10 ammo. I don't see the need to make volks even better. Adjusting the Kubelwagen is a much better route to take for improving the OKW early game.

Your wrong. veterancy is their to make an unit more powerful and not to make them viable. its a retarded argument i wish people stop using it. units should be viable from vet 0 so we look at the statistics we see this: volks do 35% less damage then grens. that's very bad efficiency even counting in the extra survivability of the extra volks. combine this with the lack of a faust this makes the volks the worst starting unit in the game.

that the okw has access to high dps units like obers or fsj does not change the fact that you start the game with 1000 mp of death weight that doesnt scale or provide utility.

e8's and 85's have no business being even remotely a threat to a dedicated tank destroyer. panthers main gun damage needs to be upped from 160 to 240 and its hp upped to 960.

Man I'll have to try remember that volks are dead weight, all this time I've been getting 4 or 5 of them and still winning, but clearly that's all been a fluke and I should've been trying to avoid them like the plague like some prominent OKW fanboys who for some reason seem to struggle with the faction.

Only thing I can actually say to the 240 damage panther suggestion: lol.

that the okw has access to high dps units like obers or fsj does not change the fact that you start the game with 1000 mp of death weight that doesnt scale or provide utility.

How much bigger you bias can get? Will you finally L2P or take the blinders off?

If you will look closely at OKW tiering and units, you'll quickly notice that volks are meant to be replaced in AI duties for STOCK elite infantry or some doctrinal one.

And volks doesn't scale?
They provide no utility?

Being most durable non armored squad in game while having decent DPS(they leave soviet penals and cons back in the dirt once vetted), on field free healing? Increased sight with vet? Panzershrecks? Doctrinal honorable mentions are infiltration grenades, bunkers and minefields.


Volks scale extremely well and provide HUGE utility(inb4 cannonade and merge) compared to other infantry. Given what kind of suport they can get, they have a spot in one of the most if not most powerful infantry forces in game.

e8's and 85's have no business being even remotely a threat to a dedicated tank destroyer. panthers main gun damage needs to be upped from 160 to 240 and its hp upped to 960.

P4 or puma are huge threat to SU-85 or Jackson once in range. I propose increasing SU-85 damage to 240 and jackson to 360 on top of that both should get 200 armor and SU-85 should have increased rotation and moving speed, tanks(not to mention armored cars) after all have no business being even remotely a threat to a dedicated tank destroyer.

Your wrong. veterancy is their to make an unit more powerful and not to make them viable. its a retarded argument i wish people stop using it. units should be viable from vet 0 so we look at the statistics we see this: volks do 35% less damage then grens. that's very bad efficiency even counting in the extra survivability of the extra volks. combine this with the lack of a faust this makes the volks the worst starting unit in the game.

Volks are better than conscripts mid/late game, but they are worse in the early game, indeed.
I don't see the issue having Sturmpios. OKW has better infantry in all stages of the game than soviets.
Against rifles is true that OKW will need support like HMGs or kubel.

Personally I see volks as an investment to lategame. Keep them alive and they will make up for its price.

IMO, most OKW units are independently pretty strong. I think the main issue is a lack of options in the early-mid game. Initially, you have 2 units (both of which are good) and the Kubel (nice, but hard countered by a lot of things). If you go Battlegroup you get healing and 1 extra unit (ISG), for a total of 4 (5 if you count the Raketenwerfer). If you go Mechanized you get 3 extra, but all are light vehicles and 1 is artillery which provides no inherent field prescence.

This doesn't give you a lot of options, especially because OKW units typically aren't that flexible in comparison with, say, US units. I think this is the reason why so many players opt for MG34 or Scavenge Doctrines. Both provide very useful units at 1-2 CP to fill this hole. I suspect OKW may need another unit as standard (from the main HQ), perhaps even move the MG34 there and find something else for the Luftwaffe/Fortification. Just a random idea, but I think there might be something to it.

I mostly play 2vs2. I really don't think OKW is weak. From the start on you have the assault Pioniers wich are perfect to push.
And if a game last 20min allies are dead. USF have no heavy tank to call in but OKW have a lot. Wehr also have nice heavy call ins. And Jackson or E8 are a joke vs the long range heavys. AT Guns and the rest get punished by 1-3 Stuka.
So it is nearly like win in 15min or gg. I don't like it. Really!

Also i agree that OKW needs a buff in 1vs1. If i play 1vs1 i like to play against OKW :-). But in 2vs2 it is completly different.

Hard to balance i think. Buff in 1vs1 and nerv in 2vs2. Maybe it is a solution to bring up heavys for the USF, buff Volks and nerf the awful assault pios a bit.

Volks are better than conscripts mid/late game, but they are worse in the early game, indeed.
I don't see the issue having Sturmpios. OKW has better infantry in all stages of the game than soviets.
Against rifles is true that OKW will need support like HMGs or kubel.

Personally I see volks as an investment to lategame. Keep them alive and they will make up for its price.

This is such a idiotic argument. units need to perform at vet 0 because you have plenty of early game battles to win with volks. if they do not perform then they are underpowered and need buffs.=. people seem to forget that us and soviets get veterancy as well. the impact of vet 4 and 5 is not nearly as great as some people like to believe. not to mention its not even certain you can get vet 4 or 5 and the for the volks vet 1 , 2 and 3 are the weakest of any infantry unit in the game.

This is such a idiotic argument. units need to perform at vet 0 because you have plenty of early game battles to win with volks. if they do not perform then they are underpowered and need buffs.

They are underpowered at first because Sturmpios are overpowered. You get at the start a superb short range unit and an average long/mid range unit. They both balance each other.

=. people seem to forget that us and soviets get veterancy as well. the impact of vet 4 and 5 is not nearly as great as some people like to believe.

Yes, it is. And to add up, it's really easy to get vet 5 with volks thanks to Panzerschrecks.
Please, tell me why conscripts' veterancy is better than volks'.

Man I'll have to try remember that volks are dead weight, all this time I've been getting 4 or 5 of them and still winning, but clearly that's all been a fluke and I should've been trying to avoid them like the plague like some prominent OKW fanboys who for some reason seem to struggle with the faction.

Only thing I can actually say to the 240 damage panther suggestion: lol.

Its like everybody thinks OKW is weak in 1v1 , right ?

Like Cruzz i can only tell you guys: OKW is damn good - even in 1v1

This is such a idiotic argument. units need to perform at vet 0 because you have plenty of early game battles to win with volks. if they do not perform then they are underpowered and need buffs.=. people seem to forget that us and soviets get veterancy as well. the impact of vet 4 and 5 is not nearly as great as some people like to believe. not to mention its not even certain you can get vet 4 or 5 and the for the volks vet 1 , 2 and 3 are the weakest of any infantry unit in the game.

Let's compare core infantry veterancy, DPS and abilities.

Volks:

-10% received accuracy
+30% accuracy -20% weapon cooldown
-10% received accuracy Healing when out of combat
+40% sight range +30% accuracy
-29% received accuracy

Conscripts:
"Awesome" tripwire flares
+25% Range on Molotov +40% Accuracy
+30% Armor >> (-23% RA) -20% Cooldown -25% Recharge on AT Grenade

Grenadiers
"Awesome" medic kit
+25% Range on Rifle-grenade +40% Accuracy
+30% Armor (-23% RA) -20% Cooldown -25% Recharge on Panzerfaust

Rifles
Unlocks AT Rifle grenade
-23% received accuracy -20% weapon cooldown
+30% accuracy -50% ability recharge +25% grenade range

DPS
N/M/F

Volks: (3.434) 17.17 / (1.703) 8.515 / (1.220) 6.1
Cons: (2.862) 17.172 / (1.344) 8.064 / (0.658) 3.948
Grens: (5.916) 23.664 / (2.951) 11.804 / (2.129) 8.516
Rifles: (5.691) 28.455 / (2.689) 13.445 / (1.736) 8.68

Abilities:
Volks: sandbags, Nade (after truck), and Shrecks. Doctrinal: scavenge, assault nades, defensive structures and minefield.

Cons: sandbags (worst version), Hoorah, Merge (such UTILITY, much AWESOME), AT nades n Molotovs (requires teching). Doctrinal: PPSH, repair kits, PTRS, Assault AT nades, HTD.

Grens: bunkers, RNade, Faust, LMG42. Doctrinal: G43, cammo, sprint.

Rifles: ...


Now: repeat after me, "Volks sucks, they have crappy Veterancy and they don't scale".

haha. thank you for the numbers elchino

elchino7 thank you for proving all my points.

elchino7 vs warriors of self delusion
1:0

Jaigen cant you see Volks beat out Cons in the mid and far range? Cons beat Volks by a hairline at close range. The volks vet looks really good as well with all that received accuracy. Plus they get to carry a schreck@

Jaigen cant you see Volks beat out Cons in the mid and far range? Cons beat Volks by a hairline at close range. The volks vet looks really good as well with all that received accuracy. Plus they get to carry a schreck@

Have you forgotten that scripts have 20 % more hp then the volks? and long range dps is not really important its easy for the scripts to walk over to the cons

For 1v1 is 2hard with OKW but with team games is 2easy.

What you guys think?

OKW OK!
OKW OP!
In 2v2,3v3,4v4 !

Have you forgotten that scripts have 20 % more hp then the volks? and long range dps is not really important its easy for the scripts to walk over to the cons

Have you forgotten that volks have much greater received accuracy scaling, which means model advantage have any value only against weapons that one shot models?
Past vet0 cons will not win without lucky model focusing while volks will endure easily and they can support themselves with potent non upgraded needed nades.

Jaigen, if you can't win with OKW, you can't win with anybody. It's time to find a new hobby.