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My thoughts & ideas on Conscripts

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31 Aug 2014, 22:18 PM
#341
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Aug 2014, 20:29 PMJaigen


Shreks are pretty terrible especially if overpriced at 90 ammo. their vet 1 is useful but nowhere the survivability other squads get when they reach vet 2 . basically every single squad has more survivability at vet 2 until the volks reach vet 5.

reaching vet 5 is a fucking chore. panzer fusiliers and obers (and pretty much every other okw infantry) have a much easier time reaching their veterancy then volks.


First of all: AT has always been great for units to vet up easily. Why? Because you are facing with "cheap" units an even more expensive unit. Reason why AT guns vet quickly.

Second:
This are the bonus for Volks.
-10% received accuracy
+30% accuracy -20% weapon cooldown
-10% received accuracy Healing when out of combat
+40% sight range +30% accuracy
-29% received accuracy

Not every squad get defensive bonuses at vet2 (Grens-Osstruppen-Conscripts-Penals-Irregulars-Obers-PF). Obviously an extra man is better on terms of survivability so i don´t think anyone would think that vet2 PG -JLI-Falls (-29% RA for a total 1.45armor) are more survivable than Volks.
1 Sep 2014, 00:23 AM
#342
avatar of Napalm

Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2

If I understood things correctly, Cons are due for an imminent buff, as are Volks in OKW.

Should keep all sides happy. :)



Source?
1 Sep 2014, 00:28 AM
#343
avatar of Arclyte

Posts: 692

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Aug 2014, 20:29 PMJaigen


Shreks are pretty terrible


are you fucking kidding me
1 Sep 2014, 00:40 AM
#344
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post31 Aug 2014, 20:29 PMJaigen


Shreks are pretty terrible especially if overpriced at 90 ammo.


Are we playing the same game? One shrek is more reliable then double zooks
1 Sep 2014, 08:57 AM
#345
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130



First of all: AT has always been great for units to vet up easily. Why? Because you are facing with "cheap" units an even more expensive unit. Reason why AT guns vet quickly.

Second:
This are the bonus for Volks.
-10% received accuracy
+30% accuracy -20% weapon cooldown
-10% received accuracy Healing when out of combat
+40% sight range +30% accuracy
-29% received accuracy

Not every squad get defensive bonuses at vet2 (Grens-Osstruppen-Conscripts-Penals-Irregulars-Obers-PF). Obviously an extra man is better on terms of survivability so i don´t think anyone would think that vet2 PG -JLI-Falls (-29% RA for a total 1.45armor) are more survivable than Volks.


And if their are now tanks then how do you vet them up? and the best defence is a death enemy. thats the problem of volks they simply cannot kill late game while scripts still can use their molotovs and can significantly reduce the flexibility of enemy tanks with their at nades. so their volks ai defintly need some looking at.
1 Sep 2014, 10:34 AM
#346
avatar of Sarantini
Honorary Member Badge
Donator 22

Posts: 2181


And if their are now tanks then how do you vet them up?

A shreck will vet them up extremely quick since damage done to vehicles gives a lot of XP
thats the problem of volks they simply cannot kill late game while scripts still can use their molotovs and can significantly reduce the flexibility of enemy tanks with their at nades. so their volks ai defintly need some looking at.

Why do volks need to be good at killing? You have a plethora of other units to do the killing (sturmpios, falls, jaeger, obers, panzerfusiliers). Defensive bonuses are great for volks since you can get your shreck better in position, they might not slow down vehicles but they definitely fend them off with the great damage and range of shrecks.
And lol, molotovs lategame? you will lose 2 man getting in range and 3 man during the wind up animation. It also does damage over time which is just worse than normal nades except against support teams.
1 Sep 2014, 10:35 AM
#347
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Sep 2014, 08:57 AMJaigen


And if their are now tanks then how do you vet them up? and the best defence is a death enemy. thats the problem of volks they simply cannot kill late game while scripts still can use their molotovs and can significantly reduce the flexibility of enemy tanks with their at nades. so their volks ai defintly need some looking at.



What? Volksgrenadiers also have grenades, and also have doctrinal 10 muni assault grenades... and can actually do good damage at vet 4 vet 5, plus they aren't meant to be anti infantry squads. Cons might be able to throw at grenades, but volks have the amazing shreck which with the vet bonuses the volks have makes it super accurate and makes them really durable.


In my eyes buffing volks is a mistake, because we don't need more volks spam.

Anyways, we will see.
1 Sep 2014, 11:36 AM
#348
avatar of Cannonade

Posts: 752

Why do volks need to be good at killing?

Same could be asked of Cons.
1 Sep 2014, 11:47 AM
#349
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130



A shreck will vet them up extremely quick since damage done to vehicles gives a lot of XP

Why do volks need to be good at killing? You have a plethora of other units to do the killing (sturmpios, falls, jaeger, obers, panzerfusiliers). Defensive bonuses are great for volks since you can get your shreck better in position, they might not slow down vehicles but they definitely fend them off with the great damage and range of shrecks.
And lol, molotovs lategame? you will lose 2 man getting in range and 3 man during the wind up animation. It also does damage over time which is just worse than normal nades except against support teams.


That was a type how do you vet them up without any tank present.
1 Sep 2014, 11:48 AM
#350
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Sep 2014, 10:35 AMBurts



What? Volksgrenadiers also have grenades, and also have doctrinal 10 muni assault grenades... and can actually do good damage at vet 4 vet 5, plus they aren't meant to be anti infantry squads. Cons might be able to throw at grenades, but volks have the amazing shreck which with the vet bonuses the volks have makes it super accurate and makes them really durable.


In my eyes buffing volks is a mistake, because we don't need more volks spam.

Anyways, we will see.


so i need to squander ammo to make them work. sorry but 90 ammo for one shrek is really poor.
1 Sep 2014, 11:54 AM
#351
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1617

Volks are great at their job: defending and cannon fodder role, they are not assault infantry. They are much better than cons thx to the shreck , vet 5 and the free nades, self-heal (isn't overpriced as the OKW doesn't have to spend much ammo to anything else). While cons need 250 mp and 50 fuel to get molis, at-nades + 250mp for the healing. In terms of cost and scaling volks > cons.

They are not meant to kill other units, rather than holding them off as the OKW's other units are perfect for killing. Buffing them would only cause a mass OKW OP cry and more blobs. Rifles has to be better than volks 280mp > 235mp.

And I hate to say this....but they scale very well and if you don't see this play more games.

To the OP; it has been mentioned many times. Cons need a weapon upgrade once T3 or T4 is up.
1 Sep 2014, 12:02 PM
#352
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2

What? Folk buff? Are you kidding me? If conscripts would be as effective as Folk I would be very happy. Minimum percentage Folk efficient to me - 800%, 3100% maximum.
of support groups:
- conscripts
- Folk
- ost troopers

Folk best. buff needed conscripts and ost troopers.
1 Sep 2014, 12:12 PM
#353
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130

Volks are great at their job: defending and cannon fodder role, they are not assault infantry. They are much better than cons thx to the shreck , vet 5 and the free nades, self-heal (isn't overpriced as the OKW doesn't have to spend much ammo to anything else). While cons need 250 mp and 50 fuel to get molis, at-nades + 250mp for the healing. In terms of cost and scaling volks > cons.

They are not meant to kill other units, rather than holding them off as the OKW's other units are perfect for killing. Buffing them would only cause a mass OKW OP cry and more blobs. Rifles has to be better than volks 280mp > 235mp.

And I hate to say this....but they scale very well and if you don't see this play more games.

To the OP; it has been mentioned many times. Cons need a weapon upgrade once T3 or T4 is up.


No they dont conscripts scale well with vet and at nades.
1 Sep 2014, 12:25 PM
#354
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Sep 2014, 12:12 PMJaigen


No they dont conscripts scale well with vet and at nades.


AT Nades are very bad past midgame. You'll be ooorahing forever just to catch up with a tank, and getting shredded by axis infantry along the way
1 Sep 2014, 12:56 PM
#355
avatar of Cannonade

Posts: 752



AT Nades are very bad past midgame. You'll be ooorahing forever just to catch up with a tank, and getting shredded by axis infantry along the way


Sounds like you are using them wrong.

If you think Oorah/AtNade is hard to land without overextending, try getting Faust hit without having Oorah, its even worse.
And Cons 6man soaks vehicle maingun/native MGs better than a 4man.
Also you have to be retarded not to outrange Shreks or displace before they fire (quite long firing time).

And again, funny how some people completely ignore Ooah/Merge/6man native as if it didnt exist or matter.
Its like they delberately leave it out to try and make Cons look shittier than they really are, to dishonestly support their attempt to make Cons basically have eveyrthing.
1 Sep 2014, 14:15 PM
#356
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2


Same could be asked of Cons.


because sov doesn't have "plethora of killing units" as saraniti mentions for okw?
1 Sep 2014, 14:17 PM
#357
avatar of wongtp

Posts: 647



Sounds like you are using them wrong.

If you think Oorah/AtNade is hard to land without overextending, try getting Faust hit without having Oorah, its even worse.
And Cons 6man soaks vehicle maingun/native MGs better than a 4man.
Also you have to be retarded not to outrange Shreks or displace before they fire (quite long firing time).

And again, funny how some people completely ignore Ooah/Merge/6man native as if it didnt exist or matter.
Its like they delberately leave it out to try and make Cons look shittier than they really are, to dishonestly support their attempt to make Cons basically have eveyrthing.


again and again you bring up merge and oorah, but fail to mention the free abilities that grens and volks get through teching, which are arguably much more useful than merge or oorah.

the fanboyism in this thread is high. amazing that we have people saying volks are useless and 90muni schrecks are useless. i guess the whinetrain wont stop until volks are armed with mg34s for free.
1 Sep 2014, 14:21 PM
#358
avatar of Cannonade

Posts: 752



because sov doesn't have "plethora of killing units" as saraniti mentions for okw?

Sure they do.

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Sep 2014, 14:17 PMwongtp


again and again you bring up merge and oorah, but fail to mention the free abilities that grens and volks get through teching, which are arguably much more useful than merge or oorah.

Count them.
Merge+Oorah+AT/Nade+Molotov
vs
Faust+RNade+LMG

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Sep 2014, 14:17 PMwongtp
the fanboyism in this thread is high.


I agree.
1 Sep 2014, 14:28 PM
#359
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702


Sure they do.


Count them.
Merge+Oorah+AT/Nade+Molotov
vs
Faust+RNade+LMG



I agree.



You forget sandbags and bunkers. Bunkers are easily much more versatile than sandbags.
1 Sep 2014, 14:56 PM
#360
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Sep 2014, 14:17 PMwongtp


again and again you bring up merge and oorah, but fail to mention the free abilities that grens and volks get through teching, which are arguably much more useful than merge or oorah.

the fanboyism in this thread is high. amazing that we have people saying volks are useless and 90muni schrecks are useless. i guess the whinetrain wont stop until volks are armed with mg34s for free.


Some people cannot count. volks only gain one ability for free and that's their grenade which i believe is the worst of the lot. besides that they gain nothing. so scripts are much more useful late game when it comes to utility then volks. and yet while a gren squad can fight of conscripts early game a volks squads will lose. think for that for a moment before you say volks dont need a buff.

that said soviet needs some better AI options but that needs to found in penals.
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