20-40 kills on a single gren squad is very common.
I had a conscript squad with that many kills once. It was when I picked up an LMG34.
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20-40 kills on a single gren squad is very common.
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I had a conscript squad with that many kills once. It was when I picked up an LMG34.
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Or a Volksgrenadier squad with a BAR rifle.
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LMG34 has twice the DPS of BAR's, or any LMG for that matter. I usually find the BAR to slightly improve AI, compared to the LMG34 which out-DPS's the other 5 mosins combined.
At least volks can upgrade with a panzerschreck and actually support with AT. Not bad for costing 235 manpower.
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1. It does not take IQ of >160 to expect smoke/see it, then to move your units farther away from the smoke.
2. Armor acts almost identically with reduced incoming accuracy modifier which many wher and okw units have except armor is slightly worse.
3. extremely high dps at hugging range. yes it is funny to see your units drop like flies even at hugging range but anything short from that shocks do so little damage.
4. Falls and Obers are not similar squads.
5. They are more survivable then other squads due to the fact that they have to close in to do the damage.
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1) Squads moving backwards can't fire on a Shocktrooper squad. Also, it forces squads which may otherwise be in a very advantageous position of cover to be forced to move out of that cover into open ground (which is exactly what a Shocktrooper player wants).
2) True, it does. However, most squads left with incoming accuracy modifiers are 4 man squads (Obers, Falschirms) whereas shocks are 6 man squads. Their effective HP is, like, half(This may be an exaggeration but it is something to that effect) of the HP pool of a shocktrooper. These squads are far more vulnerable to small arms and are nowhere near as effective as straight-up charging up to the enemy or executing flanks because they die much faster.
3) Not hugging range. The short end of mid range and short range itself is when Shocktrooper DPS becomes noticeable. Even if shocktroopers start at long range, generally they can force a retreat on single, lone squads simply by charging up against them. The only squads in the game with enough DPS at long and mid range to be able to stop a shocktrooper squad from simply charging up are Obers, Falschirms and Gren LMGs.
4) They're high DPS elite infantry. I was actually saying Falschirms are very similar in role to Obersoldaten with the IR upgrade (Which effectively makes them a short/mid range squad).
5) The fact they have to close in means nothing considering how huge their HP pool is. It's the largest for any infantry squad in the game.
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Last night I faced a shock spammer. I saved the replay and this guy literally on his build order did not make any infantry but maxim and shocks, lol. I screwed up bad in the early game, so I was at a disadvantage for that. This guy had at most 3 shocks to make assaults. The maxims weren't brought along, it was just 3 shock blob. I stupidly took waaaay too long to get an mg, but an mg is needed. Grens get wiped scary fast. It felt very similar to fighting the first Sturmpio squad with cons. Even retreating, they die on retreat. I'm just talking about 1 on 1, not the 3 shock blob all shooting 1 gren. It sucks to lose the vet I had, but I can accept them losing. What really left a bad taste was pgrens vs shocks. Pgrens get eaten alive and they are just a little less in cost from the shocks.
I don't think anything should be done to the shocks, in my case I could have done better with an ostwind to deal with the blob, but I do think pgrens need a little more durability. Pgrens should likely still lose 1:1 but it should not be so overwhelming unless their cost and pop are reduced.
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Last night I faced a shock spammer. I saved the replay and this guy literally on his build order did not make any infantry but maxim and shocks, lol. I screwed up bad in the early game, so I was at a disadvantage for that. This guy had at most 3 shocks to make assaults. The maxims weren't brought along, it was just 3 shock blob. I stupidly took waaaay too long to get an mg, but an mg is needed. Grens get wiped scary fast. It felt very similar to fighting the first Sturmpio squad with cons. Even retreating, they die on retreat. I'm just talking about 1 on 1, not the 3 shock blob all shooting 1 gren. It sucks to lose the vet I had, but I can accept them losing. What really left a bad taste was pgrens vs shocks. Pgrens get eaten alive and they are just a little less in cost from the shocks.
I don't think anything should be done to the shocks, in my case I could have done better with an ostwind to deal with the blob, but I do think pgrens need a little more durability. Pgrens should likely still lose 1:1 but it should not be so overwhelming unless their cost and pop are reduced.
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I'll have to look at the replay again to be sure, but I remember an instance I had 1 shock squad run up on my vet2 lmg gren squad. There was a PG squad about mid range away. My guys were behind a light cover tree. Shocks used no smoke just ran through the open ground and before they even stopped in front of the grens all 4 were dead. No grenades. Then they ran at the PG's and forced a retreat on them, can't remember if they made it out alive. I always had support for each of my squads. At one point I had a scout car on them, it did ok. I don't think I used it the right way though, it was up too close and I almost lost it, lol. That's not really an issue with shocks or sc, that's just me.
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If someone wants to spam shocks now, I just get ostwind. It works well.
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