Shocks

They nerfed PGs to the point of uselessness yet leave shocks ridiculously OP. that can run through 5 squads of fire DESPITE the fact they have smoke as well.

Lets just be honest atm. Relic are greatly favouring allies to the degree of ridiculous bias atm. I touched on several points before

Mainly:

US AA truck vs OKW HT ridiculous performance variation
US rifle over performing
Shocks
guards
Maxim
UP German Panther and Wer T4 costs and units.
Soviet sniper
ISU152
IS2 Armor and RNG fail against it

Why nerf Ober armor and decrease incoming accuracy, then say we want t ratify this and make it consistent throughout the game yet shocks still retain a ridiculous amour rating. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Now now german units have any armor despite ridiculous prices.

They nerfed PGs to the point of uselessness yet leave shocks ridiculously OP. that can run through 5 squads of fire DESPITE the fact they have smoke as well.

Lets just be honest atm. Relic are greatly favouring allies to the degree of ridiculous bias atm. Why nerf Ober armor and decrease incoming accuracy, then say we want t ratify this and make it consistent throughout the game yet shocks still retain a ridiculous amour rating. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Now now german units have any armor despite ridiculous prices.

I mean really please keep it clean no need to start hating each other

Do Axis heavy players really think that they don't have to micro anything at all to win?

If Shocks use smoke to close in on your Obers in green cover, I am terribly sorry that you can't just sit there and slay endless hoards of conscripts and penals.

But seriously, just kite them. Two squads will do the job wonderfully by leapfrogging away.

One squad runs away, while another shoots. Then switch and keep at it until a retreat is forced or better yet run them into an mg. Shocks are really nbd.

I mean really please keep it clean no need to start hating each other

Um where and who did i start hating? Im just pointing out inconsistencies within relic statement in the latest patch where they said they were changing armor for all units, Quote "in the way they want the game direction to take", yet did nothing about shocks. In my book that's hypocrisy.

Shocks are 2CP.

he is a german fanboy he don´t know facts like this...

Please, stop accusing each other of being fanbois, or accusing Relic developers of being biased or even using playercards stats as facts to disagree with somebody.

I'm tired of the faction lobbies that rule in this forum, always coming in packs to derail the discussion with nonsense about playercards and fanboyism.

A lot of interesting topics have been closed by that. Just stop.
If your best argument is that player A doesn't play X faction or that player B is biased, please, keep it to yourself.

Please, stop accusing each other of being fanbois, or accusing Relic developers of being biased or even using playercards stats as facts to disagree with somebody.

I'm tired of the faction lobbies that rule in this forum, always coming in packs to derail the discussion with nonsense about playercards and fanboyism.

A lot of interesting topics have been closed by that. Just stop.
If your best argument is that player A doesn't play axis factions or that player B is biased, please, keep it to yourself.

If a player only ever plays one side, he really loses the right to comment. His perspective will be totally skewed, he won't understand the arguments because he has only seen the game from one side.

You'll see a lot of 1-faction guys here saying "everything in my faction is fine". They can just be ignored though.


But I'm with you on dropping the fanboy accusations.



Anyway, the point of the OP isn't that SHOCKS ARE SUPER OP. It's that for a 2CP unit they perform incredibly well. The best available counter at 2CP is an HMG, which can be beaten with smoke (some good points have been made about suppression and smoke not being an auto-win)


On the other hand, Sovs other infantry is muuuuuuch worse so there is a kind of balance. I'd like to see them brought together, like penals bit buffed, shocks bit nerfed.

If a player only ever plays one side, he really loses the right to comment. His perspective will be totally skewed, he won't understand the arguments because he has only seen the game from one side.

You'll see a lot of 1-faction guys here saying "everything in my faction is fine". They can just be ignored though.

A player can play 1000 custom games with his friends with each single faction and these games won't be displayed in his playercard. Playercards are no absolute.

And even actually playing a single faction you can have a slighty idea on which things in your faction work extremely good and which ones not. And you can know too which enemy strategies works extremely good even with a terrible micro and which ones not.

I don't need to play a single game as Ostheer to see that FlameHT is shit, or that PGs need a buff, or that T4 needs a serious rework. Those balance issues are evident, as it should be evident the terrible soviet design that makes impossible to play with non-doctrinal infantry and which makes sometimes a waste to tech to T3/T4.

I'm not a huge fan of the current Shock balance. Smoke grenades don't exactly take an IQ of >160 to use properly: You throw the smoke grenade the maximum distance the Shock can throw it towards the unit you want to flank and then charge up.

Shocks are the only squad in the game left with functioning, non-vet related armor. They're also a 6 man squad with extremely high DPS which makes them incredibly effective. I personally don't mind their DPS but their survivability is a little frustrating, especially paired with their smoke grenade.

For 390 MP and 37(I think) reinforce, they're extremely cost-effective (unless you're retarded and charge them through red cover at multiple squads). If you can get them close, they're insanely punishing and will deplete a full HP squad (or multiple squads) at a drop of a hat. I don't know if I like this cost-effectiveness: Keep in mind, similar squads like Falschirmjaegers and Obersoldaten with the IR upgrade just don't have this effectiveness (These are significantly more expensive squads as well).

I think the main "advantage" of shocks is their survivability. I dunno whether that advantage is a problem though, although it gives Shocktroopers the edge over the Axis factional equivalents of the unit.

PGs and Sturm Pios are pretty decent against Shocks tbh, provided you put them in cover and let the Shocks storm you, which they will, because they are absolute shit at any range longer than melee range. But yes, most squads will die to a Shock, but then again a Shock can't do shit against anything other than infantry. They're good units in certain situations, but far from OP. If you manage to lose multiple squads to one Shock you really need to learn to find the retreat button.

@OP

Shocks are fine. If your opponent goes heavy on them - it's good for you as your tanks won't have to watch out for AT grenades as much. Get some crowd control and you're good to go.

When you see Shocks coming at you just walk a way. Keep the distance.

Shocks are fine in my opinion. They have zero AT abilities, so the Soviet player will still need Cons to escort shocks around the map otherwise even a 222 can turn Shocks back.

I'm not a huge fan of the current Shock balance. Smoke grenades don't exactly take an IQ of >160 to use properly: You throw the smoke grenade the maximum distance the Shock can throw it towards the unit you want to flank and then charge up.

Shocks are the only squad in the game left with functioning, non-vet related armor. They're also a 6 man squad with extremely high DPS which makes them incredibly effective. I personally don't mind their DPS but their survivability is a little frustrating, especially paired with their smoke grenade.

For 390 MP and 37(I think) reinforce, they're extremely cost-effective (unless you're retarded and charge them through red cover at multiple squads). If you can get them close, they're insanely punishing and will deplete a full HP squad (or multiple squads) at a drop of a hat. I don't know if I like this cost-effectiveness: Keep in mind, similar squads like Falschirmjaegers and Obersoldaten with the IR upgrade just don't have this effectiveness (These are significantly more expensive squads as well).

I think the main "advantage" of shocks is their survivability. I dunno whether that advantage is a problem though, although it gives Shocktroopers the edge over the Axis factional equivalents of the unit.

Completely agreed. Well said.

A couple of flame posts invised.

Nice job moderating a potentially difficult thread, Wewe

Please keep it sweet, guys.

The only way a Shocks nerf would be bearable is if conscripts and penals are made useful. They are ubiquitous because you don't really have a lot of good infantry options as Soviets. Guards are decent but ammo-intensive and like nothing more than dropping their weapons, while you know your Shocks will reliably go toe to tow with any Axis infantry, allowing you to plug the numerous other gaps in your army with other units.

Make Soviet core infantry able to fight decently against Axis core infantry. Then we'll talk about bringing Shocks in line, if need be.

The only way a Shocks nerf would be bearable is if conscripts and penals are made useful. They are ubiquitous because you don't really have a lot of good infantry options as Soviets. Guards are decent but ammo-intensive and like nothing more than dropping their weapons, while you know your Shocks will reliably go toe to tow with any Axis infantry, allowing you to plug the numerous other gaps in your army with other units.

Make Soviet core infantry able to fight decently against Axis core infantry. Then we'll talk about bringing Shocks in line, if need be.

Cons are fine. In fact they are too effective at being multipurpose. Molo is too cheap, oorah negates gren effectiveness immediately , insanely cheap to reinforce, Can merge. What more do you want?