How long we have to face ISU witch one shoot everyhting?

+1

The game would be much more fun withot these superunits, and commander's choices would be more creative.

Tiger and IS2 are fine, but Elefant, ISU, Jadgtiger, Tiger Ace and King Tiger should disappear from the game. They all are broken, as they need another super heavy tank to counter them, limiting commander's choices and making lategame predictable and with a stupid final boss' feeling in it.

Seriously? I've never had much of an issue taking those out with non-doctrinal units except when my opponent has outplayed me/has a great supporting cast of units.

Seriously? I've never had much of an issue taking those out with non-doctrinal units except when my opponent has outplayed me/has a great supporting cast of units.

Please, post a replay of you destroying a Jadgtiger with T34/76, SU85 or ZiS, please.

I'm not challenging you to prove me wrong. I truly want to see how a super tank, in the hands of a good player, can be destroyed by non-doctrinal units.

I always need super heavy tanks myself or doctrine-ability combos like Guard's button + IL-2 bomb strike, and that requires to have chosen the right commander and a huge amount of ammo.

All I can see in this tread is biased people defending their beloved factions. What is with these balance discutions? Nobody can be objective about these, people are so biased than they could not see the truth even if it stands in front of them.

I think you people are wrong a little. It's not about ISU being to OP, it's about that in the hands of a good player, this unit can give to him a more imprtant upper-hand that it should, because that player knows how to use it and support it.

But hey, that's also the Tiger Ace, Tiger and KT's case.

The only difference is that the german squads are so small and vulnerable to explosions, that this will often lead to squad wipes - no matter how vetted they are, which is not the case of americans or russians. They usualy have a better chance to avoid squad wipes and team crew wipes.
That is the problem, not the ISU itself, and this should be looked at.

All the units mentioned above are game changers, but this is not a problem, because this reveals a tactic used by the player who uses such a monster on the battlefield. They conserve resources riscking everything on one unit. This is their choice and the tactic is valid.

What would happen if the price goes up for every super-tank? Like 35-40% bigger price. Then they would be even bigger risk to take one and very rare in battle... Im not suggesting to do that, just askin on what u guys.think...

Ostheer needs counter to this unit...end of story.Jagdtiger can't help us.Both pak 43 useless vs isu commander and elefant extinct.
Give us counter or nerf isu out of the game like elefant.

You know the elephant is still in the game right? It still kills the ISU152.

You know the elephant is still in the game right? It still kills the ISU152.

Can't remember the last time i saw an elefant..sry.So no it's not in the game..and it certainly doesn't kill the isu like it used to.

Can't remember the last time i saw an elefant..sry.So no it's not in the game..and it certainly doesn't kill the isu like it used to.

I remember the last time I saw one. Jesulin made one to counter my ISU152.

The elephant is not a very good unit overall anymore but the one thing it still does very well is countering ISU152s.

I'm not very familiar with ISU152 since I never use them, but a friend of mine showed a video of how ISU152 is not as godly as most folks call it. I thought I'd just upload the video rather than theorycraft how it is either weak/strong.

http://www.coh2.org/replay/22601/not-my-game-konigstiger-4v4

All I can see in this tread is biased people defending their beloved factions. What is with these balance discutions? Nobody can be objective about these, people are so biased than they could not see the truth even if it stands in front of them.

I think you people are wrong a little. It's not about ISU being to OP, it's about that in the hands of a good player, this unit can give to him a more imprtant upper-hand that it should, because that player knows how to use it and support it.

But hey, that's also the Tiger Ace, Tiger and KT's case.

The only difference is that the german squads are so small and vulnerable to explosions, that this will often lead to squad wipes - no matter how vetted they are, which is not the case of americans or russians. They usualy have a better chance to avoid squad wipes and team crew wipes.
That is the problem, not the ISU itself, and this should be looked at.

All the units mentioned above are game changers, but this is not a problem, because this reveals a tactic used by the player who uses such a monster on the battlefield. They conserve resources riscking everything on one unit. This is their choice and the tactic is valid.

So why in hands of good player will it give him such a huge advantage? Because it is too powerfull. What do you risk by going ISU? Nothing. You will have very good AI and AT vehicle with great range on the other side if you go Elephant you will have only good AT or if you go JT you will have excelent AT but thats all those two units can do plus they are very easily flankable since they are slow (same for ISU) and cost a lot of resources especially if you play as OKW.

Sorry, but the contents of this thread is mostly terrible.

I had really hoped and thought we might be past this kind of persistant bias already as a community.

Not that anything currently in it is so overtly personally offensive it needs to be invised (which is remarkable, and a good thing), but we arent going to get anywhere like this.

How about we start to approach the issue from a stat basis, rather than hyperbole one?

Then perhaps atleast some posters will be better informed, and eventually we can arrive at an actual concrete suggestion for a possible change to this unit that Relic can look at.

Units that are good all-around and can counter anything from infantry to tanks are not welcome, in most cases. KT can counter anything. Tiger can counter anything, BUT, from a reasonable range. ISU can counter anything also, but from a range that overpasses the range of the other ones. So, by logic, ISU is the only unit that can counter anything from a superior range that other units that can counter anyting. Maybe this is another reason for wich it seems to be so annoying for some people. You know what I would do? I would let to all super-heavies like Elefant, ISU and Jagdtiger a range of 80, and let them to be more affected by distance scatter. And I mean heavily affected. In addition, I would keep ISU's AI abilities but hardly reduce its AT capabilities. I would allow it to have an ability like "high penetration rounds" that would cost amo and have a recharge time (something like 60 secs). When firing this kind of rounds, it should have the AT power that it currently has, but only then.
Obviously, people can love or hate these suggestions, but this is the best idea that came to me for the moment and just maybe will put an end to all these querels.

I remember the last time I saw one. Jesulin made one to counter my ISU152.

The elephant is not a very good unit overall anymore but the one thing it still does very well is countering ISU152s.

Put a Zis 10 meters ahead from ISU, voilá, elefant useless.

Put a Zis 10 meters ahead from ISU, voilá, elefant useless.

One turbomortar and that is useless.

And since you were fighting sov T2 for over 20mins now, you'll have it vetted and probably 2nd one as well.
OKW have it even easier with ISG and stuka.

Game would be so much better if those 70 / 85 range heavies simply were simply removed from the game. CoH1 didnt have these units, and it was all fine. And dont tell me that this is CoH2, units need to be different. Thats not the case with the super range heavies. They break the game. While one is completely useless right now, the other one is virtually unkillable with support due to its higher range, ridiculous armor and PaK43 like characteristics and the last one is a all around counter to almost all unit types in your army, i cant understand how you can still defend these units. The biggest piece of armor in this game should be the King Tiger. No 70 / 85 range tanks anymore please. They are gamebreaking and no fun at all.

Nowadays, when i see a supported ISU in a 2v2 game and up, i think : "Jagdtiger or die.". But what exactly do you do to a supported Jagdtiger? Or even Elefant, although the range nerf killed it and ISU's laugh at it?

There are multiple ways to take care of heavies like King Tigers or IS2's. Against the super range heavies however, you either have the correct commander or a lot of luck. Or you simply lose the game. Thats how it is. And it shouldnt be like that.

Game would be so much better if those 70 / 85 range heavies simply were simply removed from the game. CoH1 didnt have these units, and it was all fine. And dont tell me that this is CoH2, units need to be different. Thats not the case with the super range heavies. They break the game. While one is completely useless right now, the other one is virtually unkillable with support due to its higher range, ridiculous armor and PaK43 like characteristics and the last one is a all around counter to almost all unit types in your army, i cant understand how you can still defend these units. The biggest piece of armor in this game should be the King Tiger. No 70 / 85 range tanks anymore please. They are gamebreaking and no fun at all.

Nowadays, when i see a supported ISU in a 2v2 game and up, i think : "Jagdtiger or die.". But what exactly do you do to a supported Jagdtiger? Or even Elefant, although the range nerf killed it and ISU's laugh at it?

There are multiple ways to take care of heavies like King Tigers or IS2's. Against the super range heavies however, you either have the correct commander or a lot of luck. Or you simply lose the game. Thats how it is. And it shouldnt be like that.

+1


Well put.


Heavies should give a slight advantage, not so much advantage that the only possible counter is another heavy. Scale 'em all down, range and power and reduce the cost, then we might have a fun game.

Restrict to 1.

All the units mentioned above are game changers, but this is not a problem, because this reveals a tactic used by the player who uses such a monster on the battlefield. They conserve resources riscking everything on one unit. This is their choice and the tactic is valid.

Playing a faction with tactical smoke in tanks makes easier to conserve resources lategame.

Luckily, all factions have it... oh wait!

Game would be so much better if those 70 / 85 range heavies simply were simply removed from the game. CoH1 didnt have these units, and it was all fine. And dont tell me that this is CoH2, units need to be different. Thats not the case with the super range heavies. They break the game. While one is completely useless right now, the other one is virtually unkillable with support due to its higher range, ridiculous armor and PaK43 like characteristics and the last one is a all around counter to almost all unit types in your army, i cant understand how you can still defend these units. The biggest piece of armor in this game should be the King Tiger. No 70 / 85 range tanks anymore please. They are gamebreaking and no fun at all.

Nowadays, when i see a supported ISU in a 2v2 game and up, i think : "Jagdtiger or die.". But what exactly do you do to a supported Jagdtiger? Or even Elefant, although the range nerf killed it and ISU's laugh at it?

There are multiple ways to take care of heavies like King Tigers or IS2's. Against the super range heavies however, you either have the correct commander or a lot of luck. Or you simply lose the game. Thats how it is. And it shouldnt be like that.

COH 1 had the 88s.... don't forget the range of those things.... and they were decent on infantry too....
I wouldn't mind if these super long range heavies would be replaced by such static weapons that would have many vulnerabilities.
However, as much as this statement would disagree to other opinions, I have to admit that I would dislike COH2 whithout these units even if they create frustration. I am 100% sure that they can be "fixed". Relic ignored many good advices related to these units balancing and they did whatever they thought would be fine. That's another problem.

I don't think it's necessary to remove these long range units from the game nor do I think it's necessary to limit them to 1.

I'm convinced that Elefant/ISU/ andd Jagdtiger can be implemented in a way, that doesn't screw over the whole balance.