RELIC LOOKING FOR MAP FEEDBACK!

In order of the map listed in the automatch map pool (excluding 1v1 for i do not play 1v1):

-Trois Point (choke points, cluster city)
-Hurtgen Forest (choke points)
-Ettelbruck Station (choke points, cluster city even in 2v2)
-Semoisky summer (too small for 2v2)
-Minsk Pocket (choke point)
-Road to Kharkov (a little choke and generally too small for 2v2)
-City 17 (balance)
-Faceoff at Rostov (balance, cluster city)
-Hill 331 (base too big, mud annoying/overdone)
-Lazur Factory (choke points)

which of these 2v2+ maps are you going to fix. I mean which of these maps can fit into your "few maps" list? because i don't want to waste my time write problems for any of these maps only to see the "few maps" means like three 1v1 maps.

First of all, thanks Relic for taking the time to read all these comments and asking some feedback!

Second, try to keep the automatch pool interesting by adding some more community maps, maybe once a month? It will keep our mappers motivated and take some of the work of your shoulders.
We have great mappers and it's a pitty that their maps aren't really played by many.

Also, talking for the competitive level of COH2, we could really use some more dedicated maps (talking about 2v2/3v3/4v4).

• Vaux Farmlands
  
  Overal this is a fun map, but there are so many hedges[which make it very hard to navigate. Also Trucks or Halftracks just keep firing on the hedges. This might need a rework.
  
  
• Hurtgen Forest
  
  The river isn't located in the middle and makes it a bit favored to the south player(s).
  The north player(s) have to cross the river in the right side of the map which make them vulnerable cause of the red cover. The southern player doesn't have to cross the river cause he can just camp the fuel with some MG's.
  
  
  
  
• Semoisky Summer
  
  Fun map, but can use bigger bridges. It's a choke point game where it is very hard to come back when you're driven in your base. Immediately your entry points on the middle field are covered by MG's, mortars and AT. I think if the bridges where a bit more wide this could solve a lot of problems.
  Also, the East side of the map is much easier to lock down for the north player than the west side is for the south player. Bridges and a river crossing in the east versus wide open space in the west.
  
  
• Ettelbruck Station
  
  Definitely not a 4v4 map. 2v2/3v3 seems okay.
  
  
• Minsk Pocket
  
  For 2v2, this map is just all about bunkers MG's and static play. I think it would suit 1v1 more than 2v2. Also, make more passages in the forests. The red stripes on following screenshots stand for forest. Instead of heaving thick forest, I suggest having more crossings so you can't defend it so easily.
  
  
  
  
• Road to Kharkov
  
  The middle VP is favored for the north player. I suggest moving it more to the center of the map.
  
  
• Moscow outskirts
  
  This is just LMG fest / barfest at this moment. I suggest making some more green cover in the middle of the map. Or make some LOS blockers so there is also a place for closer combat.
  Overall this map is really cool to play.
  
  
• Rhezv Winter
  
  Please take it out of the 2v2 pool, it's too big for 2v2.
  
  
• Faceoff at Rostov
  
  Highly favored to the players who start in the eastside.
  The north players have to cross bridges and ice to get to the town, I suggest having a more wide sort of passing (not able to blow up) would be better. The red square in following screenshot would be the passing.
  
  
  
  
• Lazur Factory
  
  I think it's a cool map, but I think a lot of players hate it.
  I suggest making more wide open passings so it's not a map of choke points.
  Also, this should be a dedicated 4v4 map.
  
  
• Hill 331
  
  I think everyone vetoes this map. Make some areas with mud, but not the whole map. It's just not cool.
  
  

About the cold-tech and blizzards:
I think the fact that you lose line of sight and your troops move slower is really cool.
The cold-tech is not cool, it just stops the game for a few minutes, staying around the campfires.

Relic, just get more maps in the map pool to make it more interesting.
Talk with our mappers, they will be glad to help.

Cheers!

Regarding maps with blizzard:

I like this feature a lot but I think that freezing mechanics should be removed completely. The line of sight decrease is enough of a penalty as it is right now.

I hate the fences in the new WFA maps, unless i zoom in they are almost not even displayed which makes micro confusing when my units take the long way around when it looks like nothing is there.

You have to make the game display them at max zoom.

Kholodny winter: should get the same extra path to the north fuel as the summer version

Faymonville: Super building in center too dominating with its massive number of windows and great positioning while other buildings on the map could use a buff if anything, only having at most 2 windows per side and really low health. Right side cutoff too easy to decap due to annoying vaulting fences on the way to it for the rightside player+tons of green cover around the point that is largely only useful for the leftside player.

La Glaize Breakout: Favors south side due to the number of buildings that have a ton of windows facing towards the paths the north player has to take while south player either has green cover against buildings facing him or they just barely have any windows against his route.

Crossing, Minsk, Langres: Still a lot of super trees that can't be crushed and block shots, make MGs unable to fire at squads behind them etc.

Make proper 3v3 maps or remove maps that are too big for that gamemode pls.

• Rhezv Winter
  
  Please take it out of the 2v2 pool, it's too big for 2v2.
  

I really love Rhzev in 2v2, teams can't fortificate whole map like in 3v3.

clip

All these are great. Also many other good comments in this thread.

Comments:

Ettlebruck Station:
Problem: As already stated this map is too small for anything larger than 3v3.
Solution: Change the rotation this map falls in.


Lienne Forest
Problem: This map's forest feels extremely rushed and purposeless. The density of the trees and the narrow gaps make defensive play extremely easy. Once you have been pushed out of forest most teams abandon it and just head to mid and city. The forest also severely limits Soviet players, line of sight is very hard to determine so snipers can easily fail to shoot and walk at the enemy, SU85's and SU76's are constantly flanked because they cannot move in the narrow passages.
Solution: Open up the forest and reduce choke points. Also reduce some clutter as you enter city near the train station.

La Gleize
Problem: This map seems to fit its intended purpose now, I don't have any comments about it yet.
Solution: No suggestions for this map.

Lanzearth Ambush
Problem: Right VP by munitions that is in open field is a camping nightmare. There are effectively only two ways UP to get to the VP from south.
Solution: Either open this open or reduce the amount of excellent cover that overlooks the road (trenches for defender, seriously?).

Rzhez Winter and Oka River Winter could both do with a reduction in blizzards.

Steppes is good.

Angermeunde
Problem: Map is crowded and to add to that narrow sight lines and numerous buildings makes this map a nightmare for pathing and attacking. In addition, commanders that call units out of buildings can literally attack any point on the map at will even though the map is extremely long , having a disproportionate effect on how forces are distributed to try to combat them. Games always progress to later stages quickly because there are not cut offs that can be easily fought for and the map is so large fuel OP's are dropped as soon as the game starts.
Solution: This map is a bit of a mess. Reduce the amount of clutter, free up roads and open areas to move. The area around the mid of the map is a great example of overly detailed and path finding nightmares (long linear concrete non-destructible pieces that tanks can just barely fit through!!). Also reduce the number of buildings far back behind the lines. Reducing the size of the map and make cut offs of fuel possible.

City 17
Problem: Ah City 17 the red headed step child of automatch. This map should not be in 3v3, period. The ability for games to spawn players 2v1 and not know it until they begin is enough alone to prevent this. On top of that the map is far too large. The map lacks a fun feeling, and I don't know why. It is always a slog to play on this map.
Solution: Take it out of 3v3 rotation today. Consider talking to other people to find out what they don't like about the map.

Faceoff at Rostov
Problem: Still struggling to understand how this map was not patched long before this. South has HUGE advantage. Not only is their fuel deep in their lines (attacking players must cross through every active south player to reach it), but they are never required to cross ice to win the game. North cannot move onto the field with crossing ice or narrow bridges. Also as you exit river you have to move UPHILL to enter combat, collision of shells often puts you at a disadvantage here. Soviets can easily demo bridges once they push Germans off the field effectively ending the game at minute 5.
Solution: Don't take asymmetrical maps used to make a challenging mission against the computer and try to play balanced competitive games on them. The river either needs to endanger both teams equally, or it needs to be removed. North should not have to drive uphill to enter combat as they enter the field. Bridges should not be so easily destroyed and north fuel is unfairly close to combat as the game is setup (only one player is close to fuel and attacking player can hit them alone straight on).

Lazur Factory
Problem: Scheldt for matchmaking. The map quickly degenerates into a static artillery spam fest. The narrow movement lines reward this play heavily. In addition, bridges quickly become targets further limiting movement. Height differences in trench always favor defender because attacker is either going downhill (exposing rear armor) or uphill (collision with bank) as they move across mid.
Solution: Maps cannot rely on narrow attacking lanes, even when they are numerous. Open up large sections of the city and remove the trench so there is not such a clear mid point of the map. Fuel for both team is not harassable enough right now, since both are well protected and required attacks to turn blind corners to move on them. Once map is more fluid players will be required to rely on more than arty to win. Do not have a healing point or a repair point, please mirror the map more fairly.

Hill 331
Problem: Great you can add mud to maps, you think you might have a gone a little heavy here? Every road is covered in mud, and areas around the base or literally drowning in it. To add to this the hill is extremely high and hard to judge the distance for a variety of different units. The map is far too large for 3v3 and 4v4, which is especially punishing if you are trying to use infantry. Once you get pushed off the field your opponent will have 2-3 minutes of completely uncontested time to dig in and acquire fuel. Add to that that when you do counter attack you cannot rely on vehicles because you will need to move through mud and you begin to see the issues with this map. Again cutoffs are non-existent.
Solution: Reduce mud everywhere. Reduce size of map so infantry can be used more effectively. Do not have a healing point or a repair point, please mirror the map more fairly.


My thoughts.

Rostov needs balancing. One side has to go over bridges. The other has large amount of land. It's not fair.

The larger maps need to have a more coherent feeling in some of them. City17 is a great example. Spawning 2 groups far from each other typically devolves the game into two 2v2's or worse in 6 player there ends up being two 2v1's. Make the player bases closer to each other so everyone is complementing each other and encouraged to work together. Some maps should have the base buildings moved further into the map to reduce time spent traveling to action.

Make cut-off more possible and rewarding in the larger maps.

If you share the opinions in this post, please bump with +1 so it is easier for Relic to see. Thanks!

1) Semois: Holding the eastern cutoff as attacker seems easier compared to the western one. The following pictures are meant to show why:





2) Faceoff at Rostov: generally speaking winning from the northern starting-postions is harder since the other team has easier access to the city and VPs:







3) Hill 331: these concerns are less orientated towards balance but more to bad map design in general. I talked to many players that liked the map in vCoH but do not in CoH 2. This is mostly due to the extensive use of mud. Though this might be a new mechanic you want to demonstrate, it unnecessarily slows the gameplay down and leads to a more static play as it makes flanking difficult. Also it emphasizes some pathing problems and generally wonky unit orientation which decrease the enjoyment of the game. I think reducing or even removing the mud would give this map a much better pace without taking from the atmosphere.











Thanks for your time and listening to feedback from the community!

«Comments do not applied to 1vs1 or 2vs2» maps

Our main concern is about 3vs3 and 4vs4 on the largest maps.(the one with a lot of strategic points)

The more strategic points the largest the Axis advantage.

This Axis advantage reflected mostly of the time by the huge majority of players wanting to play Axis.

Solution : On the largest 6-8 maps remove 1 fuel production from all the strategic points. (It won't have any effect of the 1vs1 or 2v2 match.)

Why:
Game always finish the same way: Axis stand off with their supported AA-bases, then the heavy tanks supported with some shreks will kill everything, 1 shot all at-guns and kill all allied at-tanks like they were not there.

The american faction is fine in the beginning but is powerless in the end game.
Jackson at_tanks dies always from 1 panzershreks squad as their mg cover will be obliterated by the tigers.

Russian tanks (Su-85) who could do something are not enough mobile to go help their friends on those large maps.
Only an all Russian team has some chance of winning and that's sad. (Even skilled players)

It's not a rant, but the game fun factor is in danger. If all players go Axis then there is no game played anymore. Those who don't understand that fact just try to play Allied on the largest maps and you will agree if you are honest.

Thanks you relic for listening to us.

^Maybe 1 fuelpoint maps could be tested in the open beta?
I really like the idea of 1 fuelpoint maps.

^Maybe 1 fuelpoint maps could be tested in the open beta?
I really like the idea of 1 fuelpoint maps.

Great idea, that would be a interesting map.

I really like all the factions and i think they are balanced enough.

The main problems lie with the large 6-8 maps with a lot of strategics point : Their fuel production potential is way too high, giving Axis its winning edge. Reducing fuel production will tone down this edge. ( And will have also some effect on Soviet too...).

My solution is still reducing fuel production by 1 point for all strategic points. (Large 6-8 maps only)

Thanks !

• Rhezv Winter
  
  Please take it out of the 2v2 pool, it's too big for 2v2.
  

I disagree with this one. Rhezv Winter's size is perfect for 2vs2 games.
Lots of flanking, dangerous ice, VPs well distributed, no chokepoints... this is one of the best CoH2 maps for me.

I join to the suggestions made to Road to Kharkov (bad VP/cutoff emplacement), Trois Point (hard to navigate) & Minsk Pocket (forest shouldn't be impassable).
Also, E Station has too many buildings and too cramped for my taste. Arty and tank play is punished there and currently infantry gameplay is very unbalanced.

Finally, I'd wish to have the number of vetos increased, and please, think about including Duclair to the game.

1 fuelpoint maps will just be battle for 1 fuel point.

1 fuelpoint maps will just be battle for 1 fuel point.

Pretty much.

First off, I think we should go 1 map at a time per map size, too many comments about too many maps.

My first comment would be about Stalingrad. If it's going to stay in the rotation, it needs a major overhaul in the middle. I would remove all buildings from the middle of the map and flatten the ground. Add some obstacles, maybe a big round fountain like in Enemy at the Gates

I think that would actually make it from a awful map to a good map.

How bout we make an official relic thread detailing what map they would like feedback on and pin it, when we more on to the next map just un pin it

Haven't been mentioned yet but Kholodny Ferman Winter's western side has a hard time getting and holding any mapcontrol, even HelphinHans made a topic about it.

The 3 base exits can be easly blocked and aren't wide enough to manuever(on the north the fence, on the side the cliff). And the middle cn be attacked from 3 sides while there isn't much cover as the house gets wrecked early.

great stuff so far, keep it coming