Why are we still keeping that simplified upkeep system?

The issue is that when you're winning and your enemy has less units he receives much more manpower than you.

He has less map to defend, so they can still hold their ground with the little units he has. Eventually, their superior income will allow him to buy a super heavy doctrinal tank with which regain their lost territory and make a comeback.

Maybe is the popcap what should be tied to map owned to prevent stupid comebacks, instead of changing the upkeep system. If you don't have any sector owned, you shouldn't be able to call a ISU-152 or Jadgtiger.

this isnt a mechanic exclusive to relic. warcraft 3 had increasing upkeep based on army size as well. the intention is make it harder to reach pop cap. having a constant (or near constant) income despite your army size would result in armies growing at a linear rate. just look how fast armies grow at the beginning of the game. it would do that for the entire course of the game.

the current system slows down the growth rate as armies grow. i wouldnt consider this a penalty. do you see any high level players sitting in the base with no units just so they can keep their mp income up? no, because its not an advantage.

just watch lenny's stream sometime. he frequently spams cons. he takes huge numbers of losses, but it doesnt matter because reinforce costs are so low. now imagine having little to no upkeep. it would only promote more spamming and blobbing.

It worked fine in vcoh and that game didnt have this high upkeep system which is way better and should be switched to.

It worked fine in vcoh and that game didnt have this high upkeep system which is way better and should be switched to.

How do you know it worked fine? And what is "fine" anyway?

How do you know it worked fine? And what is "fine" anyway?

Because you never felt that you didnt want to build units you can afford due to upkeep. An upkeep system is fine, but when you dont even wanna build units that MIGHT be unnecessary its not. In vcoh you could with a bigger army take and hold more territory which inturn lessened the upkeep. If you went uber turle mode with a huge army you got more upkeep - a perfect system.

Thanks for the good replay. Going to use this in the future.

You are the clanleader of a soviet clan and you find out today that all soviets need to do in order to win is spam?!? Wow....
Good replay indeed. This is how soviets should play, this is the most powerfull soviet weapon. Spam spam spam. Spam everything. And I have to admit that I allways played soviets like that. Is the best way.

Oddly enough I found the vcoh pop cap system great for stopping blobs. The strength of a blob is concentrated force and minimal micro. With the original vcoh popcap system you could cut off a blobbers popcap. This would prevent them from reinforcing their blob or building counters to fight your counter blob force. It also forced blobbers to split their force up to recapture territory.

The current system adds to the blobbers paradise of coh2 sadly.

Vcoh pop cap didn't stop anything. How can you or any other explain why in vcoh blobs were used even more extensively that in COH2? Paras blobs, Rangers blobs, Grenadiers blobs. And let's not forget the powerfull british blob. The most efficient.

Negative feedback is a good system in games, yes, even competitive games. It does not prevent players of superior skill from winning. The difference in manpower income is not so crippling as to offset the benefits of having a larger army on the field.

The fact population cap is not limited via teritorry is only problematic when there are super-heavy call-ins involved. They are the real problem, not the ***** popcap. At this point you are basically trying to put out a fire by turning on the AC. Well guess what, tie popcap to territory and the no-teching callins-only problem will not be fixed at all except in few fringe cases - when your enemy is bottled up in their base and you take all his cutoffs and the stars align that only then, but not ten seconds prior to that, he has the resources for a call-in, after which he single-handedly turns the game around with his heavy tank and wins, despite the fact you held ALL OF HIS TERRITORY.

Vcoh pop cap didn't stop anything.

Thats wrong, Sir.

How can you or any other explain why in vcoh blobs were used even more extensively that in COH2?

From my experience its about equal. Depending on the current meta game of course.

Paras blobs, Rangers blobs, Grenadiers blobs. And let's not forget the powerfull british blob. The most efficient.

CoH1´s upkeep / income system is brilliant idea. General speaking. And i am sad it wasn´t implemented in CoH2. Since the popcap system is also gone there are two important monitoring mechanisms missing.

I never saw a Paratrooper or Ranger blob and i am an active CoH1 Player since 4 years. In fact these two units provide a good example that the system actually works since they are to expensive in matters of upkeep and reinforce costs (and popcap aswell) to spam them.

The system works nice in a US vs WH matchup. But it never worked for PE or Brits. Which is one of the reasons why British blobs work (there are several others of course, Lui Boni / Vet for example). But with some testing am sure it would be possible to make it work for OF factions as well. And for CoH2 too. But we will never know, Relic won't consider such a huge chance.

To be honest a gren blob isn´t actually a problem in the current sniper dominated meta game.

I think i don´t need to say anything about the popcap system. It´s just bad in CoH2. Popcap should depend on the amount of sectors you control.

In this two cases Relic chose the easy way. And sometimes the easy way comes with a price someone has to pay.

Thats wrong, Sir.



From my experience its about equal. Depending on the current meta game of course.



CoH1´s upkeep / income system is brilliant idea. General speaking. And i am sad it wasn´t implemented in CoH2. Since the popcap system is also gone there are two important monitoring mechanisms missing.

I never saw a Paratrooper or Ranger blob and i am an active CoH1 Player since 4 years. In fact these two units provide a good example that the system actually works since they are to expensive in matters of upkeep and reinforce costs (and popcap aswell) to spam them.

The system works nice in a US vs WH matchup. But it never worked for PE or Brits. Which is one of the reasons why British blobs work (there are several others of course, Lui Boni / Vet for example). But with some testing am sure it would be possible to make it work for OF factions as well. And for CoH2 too. But we will never know, Relic won't consider such a huge chance.

To be honest a gren blob isn´t actually a problem in the current sniper dominated meta game.

I think i don´t need to say anything about the popcap system. It´s just bad in CoH2. Popcap should depend on the amount of sectors you control.

In this two cases Relic chose the easy way. And sometimes the easy way comes with a price someone has to pay.

I never played vCoh again since 6 months before COH2 release date, but I have played it for 6 years I guess and I am realy surprised you never met a paras blob or a ranger blob. You missed alot .

Ranger blob

Blobs weren't that much existing in vCoh, maybe the piospam strat or on some 3vs3 / 4vs4.
From memories, I started to encounter blob with OF addon.

- Increase of resource generation per point and map, so more munition to spam
- Blob tactics for Brits and PE, two factions completely badly designed for multiplayer. Oh wait isn't that actual Relic dev team who created this shitty addon?

Ranger blob

What is the opposite of blob? Mg Spam?