Generals ruin the game

I am a very good player but not pro, I don't really know what my rank is because it goes from 150 to 700 and in the inversa all the time, it all depends of streaks..
the point is that I have noticed that you have a disadvantage if you don't buy premium generals and that is not good, that shouldn't be happening in a game that is focused in multiplayer, I know that some premium generals are counterable with other generals but most of the time, you have to buy them and if you don't you will struggle more than what you should to get the victory.

I am sorry to say it but if it takes more effort to win agains a content that you have to pay to get it, it makes me fell like it's a pay to win game.. we shouldn't even fell that in a multiplayer game and those diference are more noticeable when you face great players with them and in a game of great players we all now that the one who has the advantage will tend to win. that for me ruins the game. I have played vanilla coh 2 since release and I can tell you that I refuse to give money into things that help to win and not only because of that,it's also because I don't have the money and the way to pay them in my country,it already took me alot of effort to get coh 2, and to see it like this makes me wanna never had bought it.

If i win i want it to be because of skills, not because I could call a free tiger at the end that saved my strat.. or if you do so atleast give the option to everyone. I thought this game was going to be better than coh1 but i was wrong, they should had stayed with the expansion stuff but no.. they give "dlc" now that are actually free cards that helps to win and.only "premiums" have them.. just to hear "premium" in a multiplayer game makes me sick.

Tell me what you guys think about this and sorry for my bad english.

NO! commanders dont give u an advantage. They offer a different play-style. All prem commanders can be earned from drops. Its not Pay2Win

- Your text block is a pain to read
- You don't give any exemple of premium commanders ruining the game "for you".
- By "Free Tigers" you mean the 800 MP Tiger Ace who cut 50% your MP and fuel income after the call ? or the 560 MP + 240 Fuel normal tiger ?

I completely disagree.
Not only you can't name a single premium commander that would be your issue, the vast majority of them are WORSE then default ones everyone starts with.

DLC commanders provide MORE options, not better options.
Even oh so praised rifle company is not that great if you got half a clue and have proper AT and use HMGs well.

But just the fact of having more options is an advantage.. just think about it. Yep you now get random droops but I can tell you that most of the time it brings the same stuff over and over again and the probabilities of getting a commander are already very low if not rare.

I don't have any single commander and I am not a bad player that cries like a baby , I wach replays of good players I wach mines too all the time and I can tell anyone that I would do better in some situations if I had that prepium commander than the one of the vanilla and that is an advantage.

Commanders are not like an expansion that everyone gets because of factions, new stuffs and all those things envolved , they are more like pay more to have more options to win.

btw if I don't name commanders is because I don't want to.

hope it gets easy to read now. sry for bad english.

let the horse rest in peace already...

- By "Free Tigers" you mean the 800 MP Tiger Ace who cut 50% your MP and fuel income after the call ? or the 560 MP + 240 Fuel normal tiger ?

Tiger Ace reduces the fuel income to almost nothing as long as it is on the field. When i call it my fuel income is like 3 or so. So its one of the most expensive units in the game.

With the new war spoils system you are even able to get some of the pay commanders at the end of a game, though i am not sure if you can get elite doctrine. (but i know you can also get the rare WFA commanders so it might be possible)

I definitely disagree on pay to win because even without a commander choice you have all the options you need to fight anything your opponent may field.

Pls stop whining and learn to play..

If I got one cent for every time I read stop whining l2p on the balance forums here, i'd be a rich man.

Keep it constructive guys

People don't get my point but that is ok ,I am not trying to change anyone's mind but if they are encouraging to have more generals then they don't know what coh1 was.. A real balance multiplayer game in whitch the money wasn't envolve to win.

I also know that they want to defend their puchase saying that it doesn't makes them to win or help them at all but that is not my problem. I do know that you guys don't know how it fells to beat someone that has great generals tho

yes I don't like the ace tiger but not because it's great call, I hate it because I also don't have it in a multiplayer game where that kind of units have a great influence and should be allowed to anyone

Let's be honest, commanders have a huge influence in game and the fact of not being able to have them all it's bad. let's bring just some examples:

How can people that has never played with the "Ace tiger" find a counter to it? yes you can but people usually finds counters to units by playing with them and seeing how the enemy reacts to it, if they get to destroy it fast or find an efective way to make it weak in a sertain type of map then that is what I am going to do agains someone that uses that unit agains me. 1+ to the puchase

another example: In Stalingrad, I would like to have the option to call ass grens but I can't and my enemy does can,that is also an advantage to him... So i am stuck with units that perform bad here and he would never expect me to use ass gres because i don't have them. He knows what i am going to do before game starts because he didn't see that commander. 1+ to the puchase.


sry for bad english but if I get those answers then why would I care..

I don't agree at all. I think CoHO did it best though. You chose your general before even going into a match, and went from there.

I think it's cheesy the way we sit on CPs until our enemy shows his hand, or "X map is really good for ISU's, so I'll go mechanized support"

I'd like to see people choosing their commander before the game starts, like in CoHO and Dawn of War 2

People don't get my point but that is ok ,I am not trying to change anyone's mind but if they are encouraging to have more generals then they don't know what coh1 was.. A real balance multiplayer game in whitch the money wasn't envolve to win.

I also know that they want to defend their puchase saying that it doesn't makes them to win or help them at all but that is not my problem. I do know that you guys don't know how it fells to beat someone that has great generals tho

yes I don't like the ace tiger but not because it's great call, I hate it because I also don't have it in a multiplayer game where that kind of units have a great influence and should be allowed to anyone

Let's be honest, commanders have a huge influence in game and the fact of not being able to have them all it's bad. let's bring just some examples:

How can people that has never played with the "Ace tiger" find a counter to it? yes you can but people usually finds counters to units by playing with them and seeing how the enemy reacts to it, if they get to destroy it fast or find an efective way to make it weak in a sertain type of map then that is what I am going to do agains someone that uses that unit agains me. 1+ to the puchase

another example: In Stalingrad, I would like to have the option to call ass grens but I can't and my enemy does can,that is also an advantage to him... So i am stuck with units that perform bad here and he would never expect me to use ass gres because i don't have them. He knows what i am going to do before game starts because he didn't see that commander. 1+ to the puchase.


sry for bad english but if I get those answers then why would I care..

You spent $60 on the game and $3.99 for a lifetime of access to Assault Grens is too much? I spend $12 on a glass of beer around here I understand some people's argument of not having a lot of money but online gaming is probably not a good hobby if you are hurting for cash.

I just hate the fact how the three extra commanders for WFA are DLC unlike the vanilla game, I mean come on relic putting DLC in DLC upon release is going a bit far..

let the horse rest in peace already...

THIS! It's fixed, why cant this community just move on?

Not that I personally take too much of an issue with the games DLC commanders, particularly now that at leat you can get access to some of them for free through rotation and War Spoils, but strictly speaking CoH 2 is a Pay-to-Win game.

If you invest money to buy new commanders, you will have an advantage over someone who didn't. Case-in-point: American Rifle commander, without him US player will have no access to Easy Eight.

Ofc you can play the game even without the additional commanders, and it is an enjoyable game, but nevertheless it might be an even better game if Relic had sticked to DoW II format and made DLC-stuff non-gameplay like skins, campaigns and so forth.

As I said, I can live with the system as it is, but I agree with the OP that the current system is definitely not the ideal one for a competitive RTS. Personally I don't understand why people claim that this is not a "Pay-to-Win" system when it obviously is.

The very fact that you have more options is an advantage, and never a disadvantage. I'd argue that ANY DLC that directly affects gameplay crosses the "Pay-to-Win" line and has no place in a truly competitive RTS.

I just hate the fact how the three extra commanders for WFA are DLC unlike the vanilla game, I mean come on relic putting DLC in DLC upon release is going a bit far..

They were asked to be DLC lol. Relic only made them available in the store because people were asking for them to be available in the store. You can get them by just playing the game by the way, you don't need to buy them.

People don't get my point but that is ok ,I am not trying to change anyone's mind but if they are encouraging to have more generals then they don't know what coh1 was.. A real balance multiplayer game in whitch the money wasn't envolve to win.

I also know that they want to defend their puchase saying that it doesn't makes them to win or help them at all but that is not my problem. I do know that you guys don't know how it fells to beat someone that has great generals tho

yes I don't like the ace tiger but not because it's great call, I hate it because I also don't have it in a multiplayer game where that kind of units have a great influence and should be allowed to anyone

Let's be honest, commanders have a huge influence in game and the fact of not being able to have them all it's bad. let's bring just some examples:

How can people that has never played with the "Ace tiger" find a counter to it? yes you can but people usually finds counters to units by playing with them and seeing how the enemy reacts to it, if they get to destroy it fast or find an efective way to make it weak in a sertain type of map then that is what I am going to do agains someone that uses that unit agains me. 1+ to the puchase

another example: In Stalingrad, I would like to have the option to call ass grens but I can't and my enemy does can,that is also an advantage to him... So i am stuck with units that perform bad here and he would never expect me to use ass gres because i don't have them. He knows what i am going to do before game starts because he didn't see that commander. 1+ to the puchase.


sry for bad english but if I get those answers then why would I care..

Are you serious? CoH1 wasn't balanced at all. In fact it took like 6 years to be balanced properly. And you CAN get all the commanders just by playing the game, you don't have to buy them.

Also, I've barely played with the Elite Troops commander, and I don't think I've ever played with it after it was rightfully nerfed, and I still know how to counter it.

Having more options means jack when you can only bring 3 with you, your opponent can inspect them all while the game loads, and you start with a minimum of 3 (or more) whatever army you pick.

It's different, it's not objectively better. Some commanders are occasionally a little OP, but they get tweaked.

Callins are generally considered to be a bit problematic, for sidestepping tier/tech and making non-callin Commanders quite marginal.

We will have to wait see whether Relic agrees with this assesment, picks it up, and what they do with it, if at all.

They made the game, they are the ones who know it most intimately, and also what resources are available for time/effort, as well as what the longer development arc entails on their side as considering other company departments.

Best we can do, is poke holes and make suggestions.

I think its good we moved out of "Company of Commanders" as DLC, a bit.
Unfortunately, "Company of Callins" remains as a vestigal tail.

The Warspoils system is very commendable for breaking the DLC cycle. It really is a cool lateral solution.
Unfortunately, it also needs some tuning such as for duplicates, or perhaps a trade/craft/exchange system.

I think reasonable people understand "why" there was waves of DLC Commanders.
Unfortunately also, each wave generally had some bug/balance issues that for some reason made it live. Some of which are still a commumity expressed issue...Personally, I wish the tester community had more completely tested the proposals, and more vociferously expressed concerns on core issues. I worry, honestly, about what the testers spent their time and feedback on in this period.

Considering the limited resources owing to an ownership change at the time. I think the DLC lineup was the best option of a buch of bad ones. That they hsd problems in balance is unfortunate, but understandable.

Overall, I think Relic has done a very good job, under difficult circumstances.
Consistently trying to choose and innovate a lesser evil option, and make the most of it, for us, as the community, rather than for the executive beancounters who no doubt put enormous pressure on them to just cash cash cash.

Though I have no interest in SP campaigns, I have watched many streams featuring the SP devs, and these guys are absolutely giving it their damned all best. They are aware of historical facts, what is "fun", and definately have their ducks lined up. If you will pardon the term, these are proper nerds, working on a game within a game, and doing ehat would seem to be a very good job of it. You can practically see the cold sweat drops on their foreheads when interviewed, but also the tremendous pride they take in their work, as well as no end of histoeical anecdotes to explain the reasons behind their creations.

MP balance devs, well, we love to hate em, but really, theyve done a solid job. And now it got quadratically harder with 2 more factions. I sometimes worry about what the testers are pouring in their ear, but I think they do still display the objectivity and independance to do as they see best for the game. Feedback is noise, a lot of it, but the buck stops with the dev. Its easy to waffle pages of whatever, but much harder to be the one who makes the actual call, and to sign your name to the change, as a professional.

I for one, throw a small popcorn/beer party for every balance patch. Seriously, I actually do.I pop a beer and a bag before sitting down to read them. Its fascinating to see how the Devs vision relates to our own community perspective. Its usually bitter-sweet, depending on where your opinions lie, but imo has always been remarkably fair, and indicative of a real balance direction (though it might take several patches to become fully realised) that is held and controlled by Devs, and not subject to petty squabbles here on the community front.

Callins are generally considered to be a bit problematic, for sidestepping tier/tech and making non-callin Commanders quite marginal.. *snip*

A well put, constructive and positive post. If only more people expressed themselves this way on the forums.

Callins are generally considered to be a bit problematic, for sidestepping tier/tech and making non-callin Commanders quite marginal.

We will have to wait see whether Relic agrees with this assesment, picks it up, and what they do with it, if at all.

They made the game, they are the ones who know it most intimately, and also what resources are available for time/effort, as well as what the longer development arc entails on their side as considering other company departments.

Best we can do, is poke holes and make suggestions.

I think its good we moved out of "Company of Commanders" as DLC, a bit.
Unfortunately, "Company of Callins" remains as a vestigal tail.

The Warspoils system is very commendable for breaking the DLC cycle. It really is a cool lateral solution.
Unfortunately, it also needs some tuning such as for duplicates, or perhaps a trade/craft/exchange system.

I think reasonable people understand "why" there was waves of DLC Commanders.
Unfortunately also, each wave generally had some bug/balance issues that for some reason made it live. Some of which are still a commumity expressed issue...Personally, I wish the tester community had more completely tested the proposals, and more vociferously expressed concerns on core issues. I worry, honestly, about what the testers spent their time and feedback on in this period.

Considering the limited resources owing to an ownership change at the time. I think the DLC lineup was the best option of a buch of bad ones. That they hsd problems in balance is unfortunate, but understandable.

Overall, I think Relic has done a very good job, under difficult circumstances.
Consistently trying to choose and innovate a lesser evil option, and make the most of it, for us, as the community, rather than for the executive beancounters who no doubt put enormous pressure on them to just cash cash cash.

Though I have no interest in SP campaigns, I have watched many streams featuring the SP devs, and these guys are absolutely giving it their damned all best. They are aware of historical facts, what is "fun", and definately have their ducks lined up. If you will pardon the term, these are proper nerds, working on a game within a game, and doing ehat would seem to be a very good job of it. You can practically see the cold sweat drops on their foreheads when interviewed, but also the tremendous pride they take in their work, as well as no end of histoeical anecdotes to explain the reasons behind their creations.

MP balance devs, well, we love to hate em, but really, theyve done a solid job. And now it got quadratically harder with 2 more factions. I sometimes worry about what the testers are pouring in their ear, but I think they do still display the objectivity and independance to do as they see best for the game. Feedback is noise, a lot of it, but the buck stops with the dev. Its easy to waffle pages of whatever, but much harder to be the one who makes the actual call, and to sign your name to the change, as a professional.

I for one, throw a small popcorn/beer party for every balance patch. Seriously, I actually do.I pop a beer and a bag before sitting down to read them. Its fascinating to see how the Devs vision relates to our own community perspective. Its usually bitter-sweet, depending on where your opinions lie, but imo has always been remarkably fair, and indicative of a real balance direction (though it might take several patches to become fully realised) that is held and controlled by Devs, and not subject to petty squabbles here on the community front.

Dat emotional post, so tearful, many recognition.

Seriously, +1. Specially the "feedback is noise" part; I keep imagining what the work of these guys is, reviewing forum after forum of flaming unglory after each patch.

On the other side, they must have their favorite "faction fanboys" book-counter. I know I'd make a scrapbook of best furious feedbacks, if only to let loose some steam.

Edit: better writing (I hope)

First off this is a pay to play game. The coh2 delux additiion cost more and had extra commanders. On the surface, this looks like pay to win, but if the commanders are balanced, that it not the case. You can only use 3 commanders at a time and in the expansion each faction had 3 diverse commanders that came with purchase, so having 9 in my inventory, doesn't help a whole lot. You can get all commanders via drops. I know this for a fact becasue I purchased a rare commander for the USF, and got it as a drop 2 weeks later. The commander inquestion, added some interesting game play options, but also removed some options from the USF.

When they start letting us trade/sell/exchange duplicates then it should be easy to get whatever commander you want for free. I would suggest you take whatever commaanders you have and develope your play style based on what you have. That will help your W/L record a lot more than buying 5 or 6 commanders.

Steam has frequent sales and if you cant affort 2 or 3 dollars (usually 25 to 50 percent off) for what you consider to be a must have commabder, then maybe you need to look at getting a little higher paying job.

All the DLC that is being created keeps the game interesting and if I am having hours of fun playing it, another few dollars is much cheaper than renting videos or going to the movies.