US Campaign: ARDENNES ASSAULT

Jump back to quoted post15 Aug 2014, 18:23 PMBurts

You forgot Romania, Bulgaria, Finland, Italy, Hungary.

Thing is, the second front was only opened in 1943, and the "real" second front in 1944. By then Germany had lost pretty much all of it's initiative on the eastern front and was on the retreat.

Sure, lend lease DID help, however, you can argue that swedish metal and romanian oil also helped.

Most of germanys casaulties were on the eastern front.

Germans pretty much focused their entire millitary in 1941 on operation barbarossa, and still didin't win.

Jump back to quoted post15 Aug 2014, 18:23 PMBurts

You forgot Romania, Bulgaria, Finland, Italy, Hungary.

Thing is, the second front was only opened in 1943, and the "real" second front in 1944. By then Germany had lost pretty much all of it's initiative on the eastern front and was on the retreat.

Sure, lend lease DID help, however, you can argue that swedish metal and romanian oil also helped.

Most of germanys casaulties were on the eastern front.

Germans pretty much focused their entire millitary in 1941 on operation barbarossa, and didin't win.

Jump back to quoted post13 Aug 2014, 17:28 PMAffe

CoH I also had Little german campaigns like the Tiger-ace or the Falaise-pocket Mission where your Goal is to hold on until your man are saved from the frontlines.

Germans lost the war but have won many Little battles even in 1944-1945.German Army started many succesfull operations to save encircled armys or evacuate civillians.

And you talking like the german army were a weak army in the last years of the war and getting steamrolled by the allies. Of course they lost but they inflicted mostly higher looses to the USA and Soviets then they were getting. Even if they were outnumbered on all fronts.

Western Front:

Battle of Monte Cassino(1944)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Monte_Cassino
German losses: 20000
Allied losses: 55000

Operation Shingle(1944)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Shingle
German losses: 40000
Allied losses: 43000

Battle of Hürtgen Forest(1944)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_H%C3%BCrtgen_Forest
German losses: 28000
USA Losses: 33000

Battle of the Bulge(1944-1945):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Bulge
german losses: 67,200 – 100,000 and 600 tanks
USA Losses: 89,500 and 800 tanks

Operation Market Garden(1944):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Market_Garden
german losses: 3,300–13,300 and 30 tanks
Allied losses: 15,326–17,200 and 88 tanks

Operation Nordwind(1944):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Nordwind
German losses: 23000
USA losses: 29000

Operation Overlord(June 6– 25 August 1944)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Overlord
german losses: 209,875–450,000(mostly of them prisoners) +2,127 planes +2,200 tanks
allied losses: 226,386 +4,101 planes +4,000 tanks

Eastern Front:

Battle of Kursk:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kursk
german losses: 305565 and 760 tanks
soviet losses: 863303 and 6064 tanks

Battle of Narva(1944):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Narva_(1944)
german losses: 68,000 casualties
soviet losses: 480,000 casualties + 300 tanks

Battle of the Korsun–Cherkassy Pocket(1944)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korsun%E2%80%93Shevchenkovsky_Offensive
german losses: 30000-50000 and 156-249 tanks
soviet losses: 80188 and 728 tanks

Battle of Debrecen(1944)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Debrecen
german losses: 35,000 and 200 tanks
soviet losses: 117,360 and 500 tanks

Siege of Budapest(1944-1945)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Budapest
German losses: 99000–150000 dead, wounded or captured
Soviet losses: 320082 dead, wounded, missing or sick

Operation Bagration
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bagration
german losses: reaching from 300,000-600,000 Overall Casualties(depending on different sources)
soviet losses: 770,888 Overall Casualties +2,957 tanks +822 aircraft

These should be enough examples for a german campign even if its only about "hold the line until civillians or army Units are evacuated". Or "Push Forward and save encircled army unit XY".

Jump back to quoted post15 Aug 2014, 18:35 PMCardboard Tank

It was an example. I didn´t write down the smallest axis nations and Italy, because they don´t really matter. Italy switched sides (and struggled on teh Balkan and in North Africa) and the other nations were simply too small. For the same reason I didn´t list Brazil, Greece etc. for the Allies.

Without the Allied bombings, the German industry would have produced more equipment to fight the Russians. Those bombings started way before 1943. It bound the forces of the Luftwaffe for home protection - which might have had air superiority versus the Russians otherwise.

Jump back to quoted post15 Aug 2014, 19:07 PMBurts

Well, alied bombings were not exactly the main reason for the low german production, in 1944, german production peaked and in 1944 germany started producing more tanks and aircraft than ever.

Even tho in 1944 germanys indrustial bases were getting bombed alot.

Jump back to quoted post13 Aug 2014, 17:12 PMDarthBong420

... 1939-1942 the germans kicked everyones ass. allied fanboys will complain about anything...

WW 2 Germany only had 70 Million Population while only the soviet Union alone had 220 Million Population.

Western Front:

Battle of Monte Cassino(1944)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Monte_Cassino
German losses: 20000
Allied losses: 55000

Operation Shingle(1944)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Shingle
German losses: 40000
Allied losses: 43000

Battle of Hürtgen Forest(1944)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_H%C3%BCrtgen_Forest
German losses: 28000
USA Losses: 33000
...

Jump back to quoted post16 Aug 2014, 04:24 AMflyingtiger

If the Allied didn't concern about civilian's lives, they would have all the time to bomb and arty the German defense to ashed before every attack.

Jump back to quoted post16 Aug 2014, 04:29 AMAffe

we have seen how well that worked out in WW I..........Years Long arty duels........

Jump back to quoted post16 Aug 2014, 04:29 AMAffe

And also the allies bombed civilians directly day and night.........All sides did that.

Jump back to quoted post15 Aug 2014, 19:48 PMBurts

Hmm. Well yes, germany was never known for very good economy management.


However, you can't really say that if those bombings never happened, germanys production would of had been quadrupled. It's hard to predict such things.

However, a quick search at wikipedia says that tank production fell by 35% due to allied bombings.

Jump back to quoted post16 Aug 2014, 06:58 AMflyingtiger

They had no choice, and they weren't the ones who started the war.

The Axis could have chosen to not go to war (or stop it) and cause misery for their own people and others, but no they chose war. That's the least price they have to pay.

They had no choice, and they weren't the ones who started the war.

Jump back to quoted post16 Aug 2014, 23:00 PMBartonPL

it was so damn obvious that USA campaign will be in Ardennes (you just had to look at the rear echelon uniforms...)

Jump back to quoted post16 Aug 2014, 17:58 PMJaigen

What you are saying is correct but it doesnt take in account of the german industrial assets already destroyed before Germany switched to wartime economics. According to Speer nearly 80% of all germany's industrial assets where wiped out by 1944. the majority of these assets never ever produced anything related to the war but they could have if they where not destroyed.

Your first statement is a bit weird because germany is the beating industrial and economic heart of Europe. it is now and back then.