Balance issues currently facing the game

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Posts: 179

Sorry Warthrone, but Kothre hit the nail on the head here. Everything you've proposed would effectively render the soviets obsolete. Even Ostheer can compete very well with a Tiger doctrine and LMG42 grens. Soviets have nothing by comparison, and everything you've listed as "OP" is just the soviets end of doctrine armour.

The fact you want to nerf the two backbone infantry of the soviets (shocks/guards) makes me question the rest of your post. I really think you should play some games with soviets and see if they are as overpowered as you think.

Posts: 183

6 Aug 2014, 21:29 PMWarthrone

You say they are fine but provide no justification. I said all nations are largely fine. As discussed in my first post there are minor issues to all nations. I did not ask for ridiculous nerfs pertaining to Sovs or US. Im simply addressing current issues that are breaking the game atm.

Come Duel pls, i with OKW. We will see ;-) I dont need argue, i will show you

Lt. Steiner

OKW op.

I mean: U never play allies :-)) 5 games of 20? *Laugh*

We can upload the Duel here!

Posts: 205

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6 Aug 2014, 21:39 PMwooof

some of your changes do seem unnecessary like grens, pgrens, guards, and shocks, but youre absolutely right on others like the AA ht. to be honest, it doesnt matter how valid your points are though. if you suggest nerfs to the allies or axis, trolls will come and call you a fan boy. youre just going to have to accept that as part of the forums unfortunately.

ignore the obvious troll posts and just focus on the actual constructive posts.

Thanks woof

Posts: 205

Permanently Banned

6 Aug 2014, 21:39 PMQueenRatchet123

Nothing u wrote in this post is game breaking. You are not being truthful. It really sounds like u dont know how to counter allied units. You lost a couple of games as axis, and now ur calling for an across the board allied nurf?!?!

im sorry sir, but i cannot take this post seriously.

I lost a few games as axis and now im calling for nerfs across the board? That is incredibly childish. Could you please reply in a manner which provides adequate backing in the same way some of the posts on the first page have replied. This forum has already gone down hill with the likes of Vetlolcake and Katitof fighting each other blindly.

Let make an effort to provide fact or at logical arguments to make this forum a better place for all

. After all its only a game.

Thankyou

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Posts: 964 | Subs: 11

6 Aug 2014, 06:23 AMWarthrone

Soviets:
- Not a whole lot can be said about soviets. They are the strongest Nation in 1v1 by a considerable margin. They have a diverse set of units and strategies that can be used. Units are extremely powerful and they have multple armor options. T-34 85, IS2, ISU, KV8

Soviets not OP they just got more skills

L2P?

Soviet 'core infantry' still suck (penals)
But seriously soviet need buff to penals (also good synergy with cons merge ability) such as upgradeable at weapons so they scale well into late game and can be used as core infantry instead of gimmicks such as mg/sniper/m3 spam or doctrine weapon upgrades that make cheap T0 inf spam a viable early to late game strategy (cons spam). Soviet early game are just flawed and has been since game launch...

Until soviet core infantry has been fixed, its just futile to talk about soviet balance. Same goes for grens vs rifles etc.

Posts: 665

6 Aug 2014, 06:23 AMWarthrone

Hi guys,

Long time lurker first time poster. Just wanted to express my opinion about the current state of balance and issues plaguing the game. Please feel free to add your opinion to any of my points:

Soviets:

- Not a whole lot can be said about soviets. They are the strongest Nation in 1v1 by a considerable margin. They have a diverse set of units and strategies that can be used. Units are extremely powerful and they have multple armor options. T-34 85, IS2, ISU, KV8

- Zis3 barrage a bit too effective for price. Especially when combined with maxim. Perhaps increase price to 80 muns?

- Soviets do need a few issues addressed however. Balance is generally good. However i believe now too many people are exploiting the over performing nature of the MAXIM. It is extremely durable and difficult to dislodge added to the fact the soviets can merge and its combined suppression and damage makes it far too effective. Particularly vs OKW.

- I believe IS2 heavy tank has slightly too much Armor a little too difficult to penetrate

- Shocks and guards need an armor nerf in the same way Obers have JAegers have and decrease incoming accuracy the same way in line with relic viewing the game.

- Partisans, no idea what this unit is really for. Has no real place in the game. Please give it a unique ability.

- ISU 152 sigh*

- Soviet sniper. I believe there has been enough discussion on this. So wont add to it.

OH

Definitely has outstanding issues:

- Extremely susceptible to US infantry blobs and soviet Call in units.

- Grens and PGs desperately under performing vs US forces and to a slight extent vs soviets. They need some love. PGS need a desperate armor buff and grens need one too 4 man squad is already a huge detriment to have esp for demo charges and mines.

- OH T4 is none existent and not feasible at all. Too expensive and units are under performing or too expensive.

- Flame HT, when will this ever be made viable or feasible ?

- MG42 needs a moderate damage buff and slight durability increase.

- Assault grens are virtually extinct something needs to be done to improve effectiveness.

- 222 needs some attention. Comes out a bit late in its current state to be effective. Needs HP and damage increase.

OKW

- Panther too expensive, lack of adequate counters vs blobbing and extremely susceptible early game

- Volks are pretty trashy. The problem is Cons can Oorah in close and the the long range advnatage is negated almost instantly.

- Early game suffers tremendously vs Soviets and US forces.

- Flak HT is the same price as US AA track yet cant move, does less damage and has a 3 second set up time ? While US AA has a mobile 50 cal ? No idea what is going on here.

- Make MG34 availabe as normal Unit.

US

Boy where do i start..

- Lack of options really. Rifles are simply too powerful and there is little need to deviate from spamming them. So why go for anything else? Add a m1919 and watch the enemy cry in fear. Add two, and well..its goodnight.

- US AA, basically gamebreaking atm. Especially for OH. Mobile death factory.

- Need at least one heavy armor option on a free to use commander.

- Jeep call in to CP1

Thanks

You make a good effort, with a few good points. US AA HT needs a nerf. Dodge should go to 1 CP. Ostheer T4 needs love. US could use a heavy tank and lacks early game options. Maxims could use a bit of a damage nerf.

Apart from that... Sorry, but your list reads a bit like ''buff Axis, nerf allies''. Many of those buffs (Volks, OKW Panther, MG42, Grens) are completely uncalled for. Several of these nerfs (ZiS, Shocks, Guards) are also puzzling, especially since Guards have no armor anymore, ZiS barrage is very short anged and obvious, and Shocks struggle enough as it is against elite long ranged infantry.

My apologies, but your bias is showing. Your changes would crush Soviets underfoot. Especially since you demand a nerf to many of their core units as well as a boost to many Axis core units. That's just extremely poor balance.

Posts: 3293

cmon guys the point of these threads are for debating the contents of his post or message/point. Not saying he is noob, sucks or assuming stuff without evidence. That isn't debating or even arguing...

i have invised a few posts for offtopic/flmaingtrolling/defamtion

please try to stay on topic and be repsectful if you can't do that then don't post. You do know that you don't have to post on every thread you read right?

Failure is always an option.

It's a happy massacre?! (yes, yes it is!)

Caffeine illegal for WiFi's to ingest in 48 states, 2 colonies, and 1 providences.

To make most awesome thing in universe combine Bears and Nicholas Cage!

and remember kids, we didn't start the flame-war!

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Posts: 971

6 Aug 2014, 22:06 PMSturmtigerCobra

Until soviet core infantry has been fixed, its just futile to talk about soviet balance. Same goes for grens vs rifles etc.

This.

Complain all you want about maxims, snipers, M3, shocks, etc... all the cheesy soviets strats are used because they don't have a proper infantry unit useful from the early game until late game, as other factions have: grens/volks/rifles.

Same happens for the ISU-152/IS2 which they've to do the job that soviet T4 can't do.

Posts: 71

6 Aug 2014, 22:25 PMGreeb

This.

Complain all you want about maxims, snipers, M3, shocks, etc... all the cheesy soviets strats are used because they don't have a proper infantry unit useful from the early game until late game, as other factions have: grens/volks/rifles.

Same happens for the ISU-152/IS2 which they've to do the job that soviet T4 can't do.

A-hem hem hem...

0

VS

Romeo

cohbros/ Ohme

Conscripts Shocks KV8 IS2
by: Romeo map: Faymonville Approach

1

-

Posts: 1617

6 Aug 2014, 06:23 AMWarthrone

Hi guys,

Long time lurker first time poster. Just wanted to express my opinion about the current state of balance and issues plaguing the game. Please feel free to add your opinion to any of my points:

Soviets:

- Not a whole lot can be said about soviets. They are the strongest Nation in 1v1 by a considerable margin. They have a diverse set of units and strategies that can be used. Units are extremely powerful and they have multple armor options. T-34 85, IS2, ISU, KV8

I think Ostheer takes this prize in 1v1s.

So yeah, they really commander dependant as their stock units aren't good or scale well (T4, cons, penals). Also the Is-2 misses half of it's shots and the KV-8 is nerfed into the ground.

- Zis3 barrage a bit too effective for price. Especially when combined with maxim. Perhaps increase price to 80 muns?

It can be easly dodged and if the gunner is killed the barrage stops. 60 ammo is perfect if you want to lay mines, throw molos and other goodies.

- Soviets do need a few issues addressed however. Balance is generally good. However i believe now too many people are exploiting the over performing nature of the MAXIM. It is extremely durable and difficult to dislodge added to the fact the soviets can merge and its combined suppression and damage makes it far too effective. Particularly vs OKW.

Balance is off, the core (non-doctrinal) soviet army has a hard time standing up against a well-lead german force due to the weak AT and infantry force.

Sov >>> OKW anyday. Just spam snipers --> guards --> isu-152 and GG. I do agree about the maxim is a pain in the ass, but keep in mind if you nerf it you need to adjust the core soviet infantry.

- I believe IS2 heavy tank has slightly too much Armor a little too difficult to penetrate

Actually from this and it's big health pool it has nothing else

- Shocks and guards need an armor nerf in the same way Obers have JAegers have and decrease incoming accuracy the same way in line with relic viewing the game.

Only Shocks have armor atm in the game. Guards drop like flies along with their guns. Obers and Jaegers are meant to be tough and require vehicle based counter.

- Partisans, no idea what this unit is really for. Has no real place in the game. Please give it a unique ability.

They are pretty good for laying surprise mines and flanking mgs, finishing off injured units for their cheap cost.

- ISU 152 sigh*

It's a retarded unit, OKW doesn't actually has a direct, affordable counter.

- Soviet sniper. I believe there has been enough discussion on this. So wont add to it.

Against Wehr it's not a big issue, but the OKW lacks any effective counter.

OH

Definitely has outstanding issues:

- Extremely susceptible to US infantry blobs and soviet Call in units.

Against US blobs, LMG grens and Mg-42s are perfect, later-on the Stug-e or a Tiger stops the blob.

Call-ins are a different story as it comes from the lack of any powerfull/affordable non-doctrinal unit,

- Grens and PGs desperately under performing vs US forces and to a slight extent vs soviets. They need some love. PGS need a desperate armor buff and grens need one too 4 man squad is already a huge detriment to have esp for demo charges and mines.

Grens with LMGs scale better and outperform rifles. If Relic would buff them they would Overperforming vs Soviets.
About the PGs, I agree they do need their armor back.
The only problem is the 1919 LMGs and the lack of US flexibility.

- OH T4 is none existent and not feasible at all. Too expensive and units are under performing or too expensive.

You are 100% correct. Dunno why Relic didn't address this.

- Flame HT, when will this ever be made viable or feasible ?

Same, it just non-exsistent anymore.

- MG42 needs a moderate damage buff and slight durability increase.

Mg-42s are fine, once they hit vet 2 they insta-pin squads and lock targets faster, the only problem is to get to vet 2. At vet 1 they can even counter light vehicles like the US Flak HT.

- Assault grens are virtually extinct something needs to be done to improve effectiveness.

They are usefull in early-game but do not scale well, that's the issue.

- 222 needs some attention. Comes out a bit late in its current state to be effective. Needs HP and damage increase.

It's already can survive a Zis shot, if well microed it's almost impossible to kill. Right now if you rush to T2 it comes out very fast and good against light vehicles and hunting down capping/retreating units, we don't need another puma like unit.

OKW

- Panther too expensive, lack of adequate counters vs blobbing and extremely susceptible early game

OKW's panther might need a 5-10 fuel decrease.

Against blobbing a kübel screened by volks or mg-34. Their early-game disadvantage comes from the broken Sov > OKW matchup, against USF they do well.

- Volks are pretty trashy. The problem is Cons can Oorah in close and the the long range advnatage is negated almost instantly.

Volks are cheaper (5mp), have 5 veterancy level, have free grenades, self-healing. They scale into the late-game (shrecks).

They are meant to conscripts: Defending points (sandbags), AT platform, meat shield and recrewing stuff.

- Early game suffers tremendously vs Soviets and US forces.

Against USF it's a game of skill, 3 volks --> 2 mg-34s --> puma provides the neccessary army to win the early game. Against Sov, I already done it.

- Flak HT is the same price as US AA track yet cant move, does less damage and has a 3 second set up time ? While US AA has a mobile 50 cal ? No idea what is going on here.

OKW's Flak HT is useless, don't build it. Let's hope it'll be changed.

Against the US AA you can rush out a Puma and kill easly.

- Make MG34 availabe as normal Unit.

That would make OKW way too powerfull.

US

Boy where do i start..

- Lack of options really. Rifles are simply too powerful and there is little need to deviate from spamming them. So why go for anything else? Add a m1919 and watch the enemy cry in fear. Add two, and well..its goodnight.

The problem USF doesn't have any other option than spamming rifles, thus making them predictable and easly counterable.

Rifles are one of the most expensive, worst-scaling stock infantry atm, if you didn't go for infantry company:
-Shittiest grenades.
-Very expensive upgrades.
-Even Lmg grens outperform them
-USF already suffers from MP bleed in late-game, rifles drop like flies.

- US AA, basically gamebreaking atm. Especially for OH. Mobile death factory.

It's hard to deal with(I might consider calling it OP), but you can always rush out a PAK/250 Ht with a shreck).

- Need at least one heavy armor option on a free to use commander.

True.

- Jeep call in to CP1

Agree, in the hands of a good player it's impossible to kill it atm this early.

Thanks

Posts: 184

6 Aug 2014, 22:33 PMatwar

another nerf allies buff axis thread

Strange how nearly all the threads are about Axis being UP isn't it? Maybe it's because more people play axis, and the few that play allies can't be bothered posting.

Maybe the Allies players are too busy posting in the Buff Axis threads that they don't have time to make their own threads.

Or maybe there is some real balance changes needed.

I would leave shocks and guards alone. Nerf sniper and M3. Buff Penals to a small extent.

ISU152 needs to be given a more specific role, AI or AT. Not both.

IS2 is fine. But i would like there to be teching involved for call-ins.

MG42 is fine.

Kubel is actually really good maybe a small dmg buff on the move wouldn't hurt though.

I would really like to see volks cost increased to something like 260 with a small damage buff. But only if the sniper, M3, Rifle blobs aren't addressed.

Posts: 971

@Thunderhun
Very sensible comments.

+1

Posts: 1617

6 Aug 2014, 23:51 PMGreeb

@Thunderhun
Very sensible comments.

+1

Credit goes to Ciez, Cruzz, Barton and VonIvan.

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7 Aug 2014, 00:05 AMThunderhun

Credit goes to Ciez, Cruzz, Barton and VonIvan.

I agree with you but. Just because the core soviet units need adjusting (to some extent, i think cons are very versitile), should not be a justification for Maxims, snipers, M3 flame etc to be allowed to run rampant.

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7 Aug 2014, 00:28 AMWarthrone

I agree with you but. Just because the core soviet units need adjusting (to some extent, i think cons are very versitile), should not be a justification for Maxims, snipers, M3 flame etc to be allowed to run rampant.

Also disagree that rifles dont scale into late game. They can carry two zookas or LMGs and they can melt Obers even. Everything else you bade a very good argument

Rifles are simply too strong and game breaking early game.

Posts: 1617

7 Aug 2014, 00:29 AMWarthrone

Also disagree that rifles dont scale into late game. They can carry two zookas or LMGs and they can melt Obers even. Everything else you bade a very good argument Rifles are simply too strong and game breaking early game.

That's the key, you said it; early game. They do shine in early game as they are suppossed to win it for the USF, but bazookas are hardly usefull in mid-late game vs enemy armor, for this role RETs can do the same.

Ofc they have useless grenades, 150 mp and 25 fuel to upgrade and 30 to throw one. The animation and the timer is too long, leaving enough time for the enemy to dodge.

For upgrading a rifle with 2 BARs or 2 Bazookas it takes 150mp + 15 fuel and 120 ammo. We agree that the 1919 lmg is too strong, but apart from that and the M7 that doctrine is hardly usefull and more and more ppl are getting Rifle Company which is 10 times better than Infantry Company, while the german infantry can scale well into late-game without a doctrine.

About the strength of the rifles: at long range they do lose to grens, grens with LMG is 240 mp and 60 ammo and is perfect vs rifles as the USF's veterancy doesn't provide as much as the Ostheer and the Gren LMG has insane damage output on long range compared to the BAR. To get a strong rifle you need to spend 280mp and 120 ammo atleast.

Against OKW and Obers it's a different story as Obers have 5 veterancy level and as the game goes on they melt rifles with their stronger vet.

So yeah, their scale is commander dependant (rifle company and infantry company), but apart from that they just become support units to the vehicles as getting all the upgrades it too resource heavy.

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7 Aug 2014, 00:29 AMWarthrone

Also disagree that rifles dont scale into late game. They can carry two zookas or LMGs and they can melt Obers even. Everything else you bade a very good argument Rifles are simply too strong and game breaking early game.

rifles scale very poorly into late game. rifles with zooks become usless very fast. the bazookas dont penetrate as consistently as shreks. this make the squad useless against infantry. rifles are only good when the have double 1919's with is a HUGE investment. Even double bars are just not as good as LMG grens, Falls, and Obers.

Posts: 205

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7 Aug 2014, 02:24 AMQueenRatchet123

rifles scale very poorly into late game. rifles with zooks become usless very fast. the bazookas dont penetrate as consistently as shreks. this make the squad useless against infantry. rifles are only good when the have double 1919's with is a HUGE investment. Even double bars are just not as good as LMG grens, Falls, and Obers.

Cant agree here. I have on several occasions faced rifleman with a grens and the grens cannot simply stand toe to toe with rifles at all upgraded or not. They simply get melted.

The only infantry that can stand to Rifles are Obers which have already been nerfed twice and are 33% more expensive than rifleman. The other unit that can compete with rifles are PFs but only when they they get to Vet 2.