Who else loves the ISU these days? :D

Another proposal:

Make ISU so it's similar to Sturmtiger. Mechanics wise.

To be honest, I think that's a really good idea. Might work along some other changes.

Yeah i'll take it..make it like sturmtiger.In reality it was..1 shot per minute lol.

the butthurt the ISU brings out is so great

for once, an armored unit that axis players have to use a bit of strategy to kill besides right-clicking on it with a shreck blob

I don't even like using it that much, but I pull them out anyway just to hear the bitching from players who think they're entitled to Armor dominance

the butthurt the ISU brings out is so great

for once, an armored unit that axis players have to use a bit of strategy to kill besides right-clicking on it with a shreck blob

I don't even like using it that much, but I pull them out anyway just to hear the bitching from players who think they're entitled to Armor dominance

What armor dominance?
Tiger equals is-2.
T-34/85s beat both overpriced panther and pz 4.
isu way way better than extinct elefant.
Add to that shermans.
Add to that kv-1s,kv-2s,su-85s and dirt cheap t-34s which have near same performance as 125 fuel pz 4.
This armor dominance is myth.Only OKW posseses on paper better quality armor with KT and jagd...but they can never spam them like Sov.
Ost has no armor dominance over soviet.Soviets have the most versatile lategame armor.Cheese beginning with maximspam or sniperspam..shocks...lategame callins.
Soviets are the strongest faction by far all game modes taken into consideration.

Making ISU like sturmtiger as already mentioned is something that definitely gets my vote.

Alternatively, you have to choose AI (high explosive) or AT (armor piercing) much like you do with Shermans etc. And there should be a *slight* cooldown on swapping, so you cant just swap between the two willy nilly.

Can you guys just stop with this Soviet T4 is crap nonsense?

It got very solid AT option in terms of SU-85 and a solid AI option in terms of Katyusha. The only unit that's somehow strange is SU-76 but that's because of the unit design.

The only reason people don't go T4 is due to call ins being better and more economical option that allows you to save resources and still get very good tanks.
You're getting more for less.

Right, so Here is why the Soviet T4 is not worth its pennies:
1) costs slightly more than T3
2) SU-85 is pretty great AT except unless you are only facing heavy tanks, the Zis does just as good of a job plus has some actual AI with its barrage ability
3) SU-76 is utterly worthless
4) Katushya is ok but fills a niche role when you probably need a main battle tank to push forwards (something the SU-85 also cannot do)
5) nothing in T4 can actually attack, they all need to be kept back in a supporting role
6) SU-85 has been nerfed so bad and the T34s got buffed to on par levels with a P4 that there is no point in shooting yourself in the foot to get a turretless slow TD which a Zis can do, and then the T34s handle all situations well
7) T3 has more versatile units; If you are being pushed off the field by early PanzerFussiliers or Jagear infantry, a T70 can really bring you back on the map (nothing in T4 can do that). Then into the middle-late game you have the M5 which is useful in any situation. And finally the T34 which is Pretty much great at anything until Tigers come out, even still in a flanking situation with support of a Zis does great.
8) T4 has nothing that contributes to your mid game when there is pretty much only one tank and lots of infantry running about
9) every unit in T3 is useful

I could go on but this should be sufficiant

the butthurt the ISU brings out is so great

for once, an armored unit that axis players have to use a bit of strategy to kill besides right-clicking on it with a shreck blob

I don't even like using it that much, but I pull them out anyway just to hear the bitching from players who think they're entitled to Armor dominance

A schreckblob? Are we playing the same game? The closest thing to a schreckblob in the current meta are two or three lategame Volks running around with individual Schrecks. If you lose a tank to them, you probably deserve to.

Played a 2on2 game yesterday. Opponent had no less than 5 panzerfusiliers blobbed up, he didn't even try to spread them out plus another blob of 3 schrecked volks. Needless to say which unit saved the day.

Maxims, Katyushah, 152mm Howitzer, KV-8, IS-2, T-34s? Ye, I nailed it. On the blob control front, Soviets are terribly lacking.

Played a 2on2 game yesterday. Opponent had no less than 5 panzerfusiliers blobbed up, he didn't even try to spread them out plus another blob of 3 schrecked volks. Needless to say which unit saved the day.

Soviets have so many other options to handle blobs. Do you think if the ISU wasn't here, a 5-PF blob would be unstoppable?


See above post for ideas.

Soviets have so many other options to handle blobs. Do you think if the ISU wasn't here, a 5-PF blob would be unstoppable?


See above post for ideas.

I'm saying countering a-moving a panzer fusilier blob shouldn't be harder than a-moving the counter.

To be honest though, I agree with Cruzz's suggestion in fantasy thread to implement 1 second setup time for ISU plus nerfing it's AT capability a bit.

No, you're saying the ISU is an acceptable unit because it counters this easily. So while you're claiming that it's wrong to have an easy A-move unit, it's right to have the ISU which is essentially the king of A-move units.


If you'd actually said "countering a-moving a panzer fusilier blob shouldn't be harder than a-moving the counter." I'd totally agree with you and call for changes there. But you didn't. You said the ISU saved the day. The ISU almost always saves the day because it's a ridiculously strong unit.


Cruzz's ideas aren't bad but it needs to have the squad-wipe ability removed. I can only ask you to trust me that if the elefant was deleting one of your vet squads every 10 seconds AND destroying your tanks, you'd be saying the same thing as me.

Maxims, Katyushah, 152mm Howitzer, KV-8, IS-2, T-34s? Ye, I nailed it. On the blob control front, Soviets are terribly lacking.

Maxims are not a blob control unit. One maxim can suppress 1-2 units at best. More than 3 units together can easily walk towards the maxim and kill the crew.
Assault grenades have 100% success decrewing a maxim for 10 ammo.

Katyusha is not a blob control either. At least no in a reliable way. Only the first 4-rocket barrage will land over the blob, and sometimes it wipes full units, sometimes it doesn't do anything.
Nobody will build T4 and make such expensive and fragile unit for that unreliable result.
Katyusha is only good to wipe retreating units or destruying OKW trucks, but not as blob control.

Same applies to Howitzer. Nobody uses that. Air strikes and offmap arty made them useless.

KV-8 is still good even after nerfs, but doctrinal. The problem is that the current meta involves superheavy tanks for all factions. Investing fuel lategame in that tank is not wise if you now that a Tiger or Jadgtiger is approaching.

IS-2 and T-34, yes, are fine against infantry blobs. Together with ISU-152 are the only units able to deal with infantry blobs and heavy tanks.

It's not suprise then than most players just don't tech T3/T4 if call-ins are better in everything compared to non-doctrinal units.
Only T34/76 and maybe M5 have their place in the game.

Cruzz's ideas aren't bad but it needs to have the squad-wipe ability removed. I can only ask you to trust me that if the elefant was deleting one of your vet squads every 10 seconds AND destroying your tanks, you'd be saying the same thing as me.

Add 1 sec setup time to be able to shot (like the OKW's Flak HT), and switch between HE and AP rounds.

That way the ISU-152 will retend its flavour but it will be much easier to approach, and it won't wipe squads on retreat or fight effectively against infantry and armour together.

ONE maxim? how about 5 or 6?

Smoke, walking stuka, gren's LMG, etc... they all destroy completely any kind of maxim play.

And precisely, people spam maxims becase one alone is crap (and because all non-doctrinal infantry is garbage). You need two or even three in the same place to effectively stop blobs.
It can't supress more than two units, and that being lucky. Without manually switching targets maxim usually only supresses one, giving to the rest of units plenty of time to get out of the shooting range.

Seriously, you won't see maxim spam in high level games because it's to easy to counter. As Cruzz said in other thread, the unit needs a cost increase to avoid spamming, but it also needs a suppression buff to make it a reliable blob control unit.
Maxim only overperfoms against bad players.

Katyusha is fine. build 2 or 3 they are cheap and low pop cap.

I don't remember the exact cost, but I think it was around 300 mp and 80 fuel. Not cheap for a unit that, I repeat, doesn't give any kind of blob control.
It's just a manpower-bleed unit which can't stop infantry or armor pushes. It fulfills a similar role as snipers, bleeding manpower, and like snipers, only effective if you gather 2 or 3. They share even the same fragility and punishment to mistakes.
But unlike snipers, Katyusha is unreliable as you can't predict the outcome of the barrage.

With just ONE Walking Stuka or Pzwerfer you can almost be sure that everything under the barrage area will be killed or severely damaged. And you suggest to build THREE Katyushas to achieve the same effect?
We all saw weeks ago what will happen if katyusha were placed in the same tier that other mobile arty.

Katyushas are only useful right now to destroy emplacements and OKW's trucks. A task that mortars does equally fine being much more cheaper.

7 pages in...many posts invised by staff....this thread has lost its legs...let's move on