USF is not fun

i mainly play USF and have notice that if u dont win in less than 20min u are likely to lose. The main problem for me is the USF lack a solid late game and the axis players know it. countless times me or my team could have a good hold on the map and axis player just save up fuel to bring heavies out then its GG. jackson shell and anti tanks guns bounce too many times. then they axis team either steamroll me in a 1v1 or steam role my team in other modes.

I would like to see a solid late game unit foe the USF, But early game is also tuff to win USF has a pretty strong early game. But holding ur early game advantage is very fragile. things like snipers and overlocking fire maching guns can really mess up ur early game. i really believe that USF would benefit from a t1 machingun team or mortar halftrack in T2.

And my last problem is the commanders, they seem very usless and situational.I find myself using the rifle commander all the time cus it is the best in most situations. This can become boring very fast.

This leads into my last point. USF is boring to play! You have very limited options in units. just spam rifles and more rifles. i would REALLY like to see a unit in t2 similar to the lieutenant that can be produced more than once. and in T3 a captian-like squad that can also be deployed more than once. This would be HUGE. using different infantry that are not rifles will make USF more dynamic and fun IMO.

i mainly play USF and have notice that if u dont win in less than 20min u are likely to lose. The main problem for me is the USF lack a solid late game and the axis players know it. countless times me or my team could have a good hold on the map and axis player just save up fuel to bring heavies out then its GG. jackson shell and anti tanks guns bounce too many times. then they axis team either steamroll me in a 1v1 or steam role my team in other modes.

I would like to see a solid late game unit foe the USF, But early game is also tuff to win USF has a pretty strong early game. But holding ur early game advantage is very fragile. things like snipers and overlocking fire maching guns can really mess up ur early game. i really believe that USF would benefit from a t1 machingun team or mortar halftrack in T2.

And my last problem is the commanders, they seem very usless and situational.I find myself using the rifle commander all the time cus it is the best in most situations. This can become boring very fast.

This leads into my last point. USF is boring to play! You have very limited options in units. just spam rifles and more rifles. i would REALLY like to see a unit in t2 similar to the lieutenant that can be produced more than once. and in T3 a captian-like squad that can also be deployed more than once. This would be HUGE. using different infantry that are not rifles will make USF more dynamic and fun IMO.

1) USF is designed to work around rifles, its literally how Relic intended the faction to play. They are the strongest, best scaling, and most versatile unit in the game.

2) An early MG for the US would be horrifically broken given how you would then have the ability to smoke/nade/bar your way up the map supported by mgs. WTF are grens supposed to do, they already get beat at all ranges. The MG42 acts as a support unit, without that edge Ostheer has literally nothing to counter USF.

3)Late game is designed around Axis supremacy. You already have the best infantry in the game now you want a super heavy tank as well? The Jackson has 60 range and can reliably pentrate any axis armor, put it behind some shermans (which once again are the most versatile tank in the game) and watch it shine. The issue with USF late game is it requires combined arms and a hell of a lot of micro for the Jacksons. But done right it's actually ridiculously good.

4) You make some good points about lackluster commander design. The armor commander and airforce commander are just plain weak. The recon commander is okay, and the rifle commander is OP as shit given every one of his abilities is amazing. Plus the Easy 8 is the most insane tank in the game right now for it's cost.

I think some tweaks are in order but I also think some of these items are L2P issues.

1) USF is designed to work around rifles, its literally how Relic intended the faction to play. They are the strongest, best scaling, and most versatile unit in the game.

They are in fact the strongest early game rifle unit with the WORST scaling. The only weapon loadout that makes them remain relevant throughout the game is double LMG, which is limited to one single commander. Even then the shittiest at nade in the game after fusiliers, lack of sprint, and their very stupid formation that makes them prime targets for aoe squad wipes make them scale badly even with the LMGs, compared to other rifle infantry that start off weaker initially

2) An early MG for the US would be horrifically broken given how you would then have the ability to smoke/nade/bar your way up the map supported by mgs. WTF are grens supposed to do, they already get beat at all ranges. The MG42 acts as a support unit, without that edge Ostheer has literally nothing to counter USF.

Gren blobbing actually scales better than riflemen, eventually you'll have enough grenadiers that riflemen can no longer do anything. No need for the MG42s though to be honest they're so powerful against USA you might as well get one or two eventually. Not that I think the USA MG has to come faster, lieutenant hardly takes long as it is.

3)Late game is designed around Axis supremacy. You already have the best infantry in the game now you want a super heavy tank as well? The Jackson has 60 range and can reliably pentrate any axis armor, put it behind some shermans (which once again are the most versatile tank in the game) and watch it shine. The issue with USF late game is it requires combined arms and a hell of a lot of micro for the Jacksons. But done right it's actually ridiculously good.

I'll just crawl forward with my pak wall and watch as your tincans blow up one by one without having done anything. The worst artillery in the game for a faction with such a micro heavy endgame is a bad combination. For that matter you will NOT have walls of shermans for your jacksons, in most 1vs1 games you'll have two vehicles from T4 at most before it's over due to fuel constraints.

If you ask me, most of the fundamental problems of USA apart from the artillery situation stem from their utterly awful non-fuel based AT. They make guards and zis guns and conscript at nades look positively divine.

2) An early MG for the US would be horrifically broken given how you would then have the ability to smoke/nade/bar your way up the map supported by mgs. WTF are grens supposed to do, they already get beat at all ranges. The MG42 acts as a support unit, without that edge Ostheer has literally nothing to counter USF.

U cant be serious! so i guess double sturmpios with 1CP MG start isnt OP? What are grens to do? the can flank like the conscripts have to. U have to remember that USF machinguns have a small cone a fire and are easy to flank. NOW interlocking firing mg34's and 42's are very hard to stop EVEN WITH SMOKE. there CONE OF FIRE IS HUGE!

I think USF is due for some actually useful commanders that won't completely add to the redundancy of revolving around one core unit.

Er rifle blobs with lmg upgrade probably one of the best infantry in the game. A move and watch everything melt. It's stupid. They DO scale pretty well with upgrades...

USF Late game is pretty Iffy - I just end up having to mass the hell out of tanks (Shermans, M8s, Jacksons) and rely on micro to keep them alive since they all have pretty low HP against AT. On top of this, I need good support with the mass tanks to push forward against heavy units. Their late game isn't easy to pull off like just building a tiger and shooting stuff, but definitely possible.

For me this thread is not fully correctly...

When the axis get 1 (alone tank) King Tiger, as US you can get 2 AT's and 2 or 3 medium-big tank's. Is a big number difference. You can beat then.

And in team games is too more easy to resist.

U cant be serious! so i guess double sturmpios with 1CP MG start isnt OP? What are grens to do? the can flank like the conscripts have to. U have to remember that USF machinguns have a small cone a fire and are easy to flank. NOW interlocking firing mg34's and 42's are very hard to stop EVEN WITH SMOKE. there CONE OF FIRE IS HUGE!

You must be new to the game, lol

For me this thread is not fully correctly...

When the axis get 1 (alone tank) King Tiger, as US you can get 2 AT's and 2 or 3 medium-big tank's. Is a big number difference. You can beat then.

And in team games is too more easy to resist.

Not when that axis player has shrek squads/AT squads galore or Paks and has them screen or follow their Heavy Tank like flies on poop. The infantry just overrun Rifles, MGs, and AT guns and force your armor to run away pushing you off the map. USF arty fails at blob control both non-doctrinal and doctrinal. The current game reminds me of the old days of VCOH where it was Terror or Blitz doc and just stupid amounts of vetted German infantry steamrolling everything along with their nice big tank in the late game.

Only ways I have won is destroying the axis player in the early game to mid game. Once I hit the late game phase its tooth and nail holding onto what I got and being really conservative with my forces while I build up an armor task force of shermans with a jackson to take back the initiative.

As for rifles scaling into the late game, they don't well in my opinion. Obers and vetted OKW units kill them and you're so busy keeping you tin can armor alive those rifle squads get wiped. For Wehr Grens with an LMG or just stock KAR 98s kill them off pretty quick in the mid to late game.

They are in fact the strongest early game rifle unit with the WORST scaling. The only weapon loadout that makes them remain relevant throughout the game is double LMG, which is limited to one single commander. Even then the shittiest at nade in the game after fusiliers, lack of sprint, and their very stupid formation that makes them prime targets for aoe squad wipes make them scale badly even with the LMGs, compared to other rifle infantry that start off weaker initially



Gren blobbing actually scales better than riflemen, eventually you'll have enough grenadiers that riflemen can no longer do anything. No need for the MG42s though to be honest they're so powerful against USA you might as well get one or two eventually. Not that I think the USA MG has to come faster, lieutenant hardly takes long as it is.



I'll just crawl forward with my pak wall and watch as your tincans blow up one by one without having done anything. The worst artillery in the game for a faction with such a micro heavy endgame is a bad combination. For that matter you will NOT have walls of shermans for your jacksons, in most 1vs1 games you'll have two vehicles from T4 at most before it's over due to fuel constraints.

If you ask me, most of the fundamental problems of USA apart from the artillery situation stem from their utterly awful non-fuel based AT. They make guards and zis guns and conscript at nades look positively divine.

I actually can't believe what I just read there...

You must be the first and only person I have ever come across to say that blobbing grenadiers is an effective tactic vs the USF? I mean wow. Double bars will out DPS grens at any distance not to mention the fact they fire on the move.

I also have no idea what your talking about with the 5 man squad formation. I think we must be playing a different game as a unit with smoke, AT nade, customizable weapon, and easy vet combined with the majors fall back is ridiculously good vs fucking Grens.

The issue of USF indirect fire is indeed a problem and not one the OP even addressed. The pak howie is near useless and the mortar halftrak hardly justifies it's cost. However I usually deal with paks the same way I deal with anything as the USF: just smoke and mow it down with your insanely awesome infantry. The Ostheer faction naturally suffers from late game AI unless your already facing tigers in which case the game is likely already over.

But yes the 57mm is terrible and needs a look along with some serious buffs to the pack howie.

These are some pretty general issues, and it is hard to really pinpoint where you are going wrong without actually seeing the whole game in context. If you feel like uploading a replay I would be more than happy to give it a look and see if there is anything I can help with

My steam ID: 76561197999607791

USF will be kinda fun when they have a tank which won't get facerolled in a mid-late game......M26 anyone?


And I think relic should probably bring the non-doctrinal 1/4 tone Jeep back to hunt those snipers

USF will be kinda fun when they have a tank which won't get facerolled in a mid-late game......M26 anyone?


And I think relic should probably bring the non-doctrinal 1/4 tone Jeep back to hunt those snipers

Easy 8 is the best tank in the game??? What more do you want?

I actually can't believe what I just read there...

You must be the first and only person I have ever come across to say that blobbing grenadiers is an effective tactic vs the USF? I mean wow. Double bars will out DPS grens at any distance not to mention the fact they fire on the move.

I also have no idea what your talking about with the 5 man squad formation. I think we must be playing a different game as a unit with smoke, AT nade, customizable weapon, and easy vet combined with the majors fall back is ridiculously good vs fucking Grens.

The issue of USF indirect fire is indeed a problem and not one the OP even addressed. The pak howie is near useless and the mortar halftrak hardly justifies it's cost. However I usually deal with paks the same way I deal with anything as the USF: just smoke and mow it down with your insanely awesome infantry. The Ostheer faction naturally suffers from late game AI unless your already facing tigers in which case the game is likely already over.

But yes the 57mm is terrible and needs a look along with some serious buffs to the pack howie.

I agree with cruzz. Lmg gren scale so much better with access to faust , nade and lmg 's with no extra fuel cost apart from normal teching cost. Plus lmg gren are cheaper than a double bar rifleman, 240 mp, 60mun. Vs 280, 120mun plus the mp and fuel cost to upgrade to get bars and nades. Personaly I think ost butt fuck USF IN every way and lmg gren are SO MUCH BETTER!

As for indirect fire, USF non doctranal indirect fire is shit compaired to Ost rapid fire mortars and OKW's ISG. All cheap and so much more effective, it is pritty much an outrage how good they are for the price and time they are available( and yes YOU ALL KNOW ITS TRUE!)

I find 57mm AT gun not that bad. But would be good if the AP rounds were better, even if they cost more. Just feel like it would make the AT gun scale better in the late game when heaveys come out.

I mostly agree.

For late game, US needs either more armor on the Jacksons or slightly increased range, because it's an absolute bitch to try to kite, say, a Jagdtiger and keep it at max range without taking any damage. One hit and you're half health.

Early game I feel forced to go T3 for the AT guns, at least in 2v2, beacause otherwise what's my AT? Lol-bazookas and Rifle nades?

Shermans are in a position where they fare ok against infantry, but against tanks you can get in like 2 flank hits, then you have to pop smoke, reverse away and repair. If you don't, you will lose them. And while you're repairing, the Axis guy can repair, too.

But yeah, late game, Axis guy can make a super-tank and A-move. Meanwhile you're sitting there trying to manage multiple Shermans and Jacksons and keep them at max range and dodge your AT guns from the uber-nuke walking stuka. Hard times right now.

Easy 8 is the best tank in the game??? What more do you want?

Cost effective? Yup,

Best tank in the game? Hah?

USF will be kinda fun when they have a tank which won't get facerolled in a mid-late game......M26 anyone?

Isn't that what Soviets face already?

I actually can't believe what I just read there...

You must be the first and only person I have ever come across to say that blobbing grenadiers is an effective tactic vs the USF? I mean wow. Double bars will out DPS grens at any distance not to mention the fact they fire on the move.

I also have no idea what your talking about with the 5 man squad formation. I think we must be playing a different game as a unit with smoke, AT nade, customizable weapon, and easy vet combined with the majors fall back is ridiculously good vs fucking Grens.

The issue of USF indirect fire is indeed a problem and not one the OP even addressed. The pak howie is near useless and the mortar halftrak hardly justifies it's cost. However I usually deal with paks the same way I deal with anything as the USF: just smoke and mow it down with your insanely awesome infantry. The Ostheer faction naturally suffers from late game AI unless your already facing tigers in which case the game is likely already over.

But yes the 57mm is terrible and needs a look along with some serious buffs to the pack howie.

Don't worry, I'm the second person.

If you manage to keep your vet3 BAR/1919 Rifles alive and are halfway decent at microing two Jacksons, then there's nothing you can't take on late game.

I seriously don't see how Rifles don't scale well late game? I mean you have nothing to spend your muni on except the guns from the weapon racks. Their 5 man squadsize is optimal imo, you fit in pretty much every cover but still have that special dude that always survives the nade/tankshell/whatever explosive.

As for the lategame sacling of grenadiers, their low squadsize makes them disappear pretty quickly late game, when the heavy hitters start rolling out.

As for the USF indirect fire. Yes the Mortar Halftrack needs a buff, but the pack howie is nothing short of awesome. I build it pretty much every game and it rarely ever finishes the game without vet2.

Edit: This is from a 2v2 perspective.