So, thanks to Barton for pioneering the Triple Sniper Cheese Strat. I think it's about time Relic did something about this unit which has overperformed for the last year.
Abit like the KV8, it has not been touched yet the stats obviously show.
Its hard enough to counter snipers with Ostheer, a 222 will come out the same time as guards appear. OKW however, don't have a 222. Kubels can not be used, as there is normally a M3 rolling around, its also got 0 dmg on the move.
Theres 2 options i can see.
1. Limit to 1 sniper ( Great Idea!)
2. Reduce range on soviet snipers. (They already have lightspeed move ability and 2 man durability.)
If you have any other ideas please post them.
I already know all the soviets will come and whine, "We need them to counter the elite Inf."
Well, i guess you will have to L2P if you can't win without snipers.
Finally a reason for Relic to Nerf that BS
4 Aug 2014, 00:25 AM
#1
Posts: 184
76561198005515393
4 Aug 2014, 00:39 AM
#2
4 
Posts: 312
Honestly, the strategy would probably fail vs Ostheer and really only works against OKW due to a lack of hard counters (no counter sniper or 222).
While it is a very strong strategy (the sniper is an extremely strong unit vs OKW), it does sort of depend on the map and leaves you vulnerable to early vehicle play. While this is hard for OKW, I'm under the impression multiple Flak Haltracks and/or Pumas can easily handle snipers + guards.
Forgoing mechanized play, it's also possible to just spam Panzerfusiliers. Their 6 member squads take a long time for Soviet snipers to drive back and their relatively good long range accuracy makes them ideal for engaging guards and snipers.
Point is: Snipers are fine. Don't touch them.
While it is a very strong strategy (the sniper is an extremely strong unit vs OKW), it does sort of depend on the map and leaves you vulnerable to early vehicle play. While this is hard for OKW, I'm under the impression multiple Flak Haltracks and/or Pumas can easily handle snipers + guards.
Forgoing mechanized play, it's also possible to just spam Panzerfusiliers. Their 6 member squads take a long time for Soviet snipers to drive back and their relatively good long range accuracy makes them ideal for engaging guards and snipers.
Point is: Snipers are fine. Don't touch them.
4 Aug 2014, 00:53 AM
#3
Posts: 184
Lol. Seriously? Pumas? They take forever to kill infantry. Guards would shred them. Flaks would jst get buttoned and they can't cap territory.
Fusiliers, do ok, but 3 snipers only need to get one shot off each before u have to retreat. This is a big manpower drain. Also you are forced into a doctrine so this is not a viable counter.
Let me know when you face a decent opponent using this strat on a map like lagreskaya. Tell me how u go with it.
Fusiliers, do ok, but 3 snipers only need to get one shot off each before u have to retreat. This is a big manpower drain. Also you are forced into a doctrine so this is not a viable counter.
Let me know when you face a decent opponent using this strat on a map like lagreskaya. Tell me how u go with it.
76561198005515393
4 Aug 2014, 01:03 AM
#4
4 
Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2
maybe make kubel do some damage when moving?
i once chased a retreating sniper with a kubel for like 5 seconds and i did 10% damage
i once chased a retreating sniper with a kubel for like 5 seconds and i did 10% damage
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4 Aug 2014, 01:18 AM
#5
Posts: 196
I don't think Snipers are inherently the problem, its just that OKW have no good counters to them early game. Nerfing snipers directly would only make them useless against Ostheer.
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4 Aug 2014, 01:23 AM
#6
Posts: 1384
Honestly, the strategy would probably fail vs Ostheer and really only works against OKW due to a lack of hard counters (no counter sniper or 222).
.
The counter to sniper is the kubel wagon.
Get vet 1, use detect ability and shoot the sniper with something else.
4 Aug 2014, 01:46 AM
#7
Posts: 598
I think the Soviet teching system has always been a problem since day one. For early game you have the choice of choosing either the standard t2 or the cheesy t1. Really the T1 buildings is meant for cheesy strats, it's filled with things the early game Germans couldn't counter, but lacks any anti tank to be successful so you should already beat the Germans early game otherwise the chance is lost.
Even when the Soviet faction became underpowered in I think it was the March 25th update. They still gather wins by using T1 because it was still very reliable.
I really hope Relic would redesign the Soviet tech to something that would make more sense for a company of heroes game.
Even when the Soviet faction became underpowered in I think it was the March 25th update. They still gather wins by using T1 because it was still very reliable.
I really hope Relic would redesign the Soviet tech to something that would make more sense for a company of heroes game.
4 Aug 2014, 01:48 AM
#8
Posts: 184
I think the Soviet teching system has always been a problem since day one. For early game you have the choice of choosing either the standard t2 or the cheesy t1. Really the T1 buildings is meant for cheesy strats, it's filled with things the early game Germans couldn't counter, but lacks any anti tank to be successful so you should already beat the Germans early game otherwise the chance is lost.
Even when the Soviet faction became underpowered in I think it was the March 25th update. They still gather wins by using T1 because it was still very reliable.
I really hope Relic would redesign the Soviet tech to something that would make more sense for a company of heroes game.
I hope so too. Soviet Cheese is and has been too strong in the hands of good players.
76561198005515393
4 Aug 2014, 01:52 AM
#9
4 Posts: 312
The counter to sniper is the kubel wagon.
Get vet 1, use detect ability and shoot the sniper with something else.
Maybe if you're lucky, but an M3 will easily handle a Kuebel (which is a given if he went snipers).
The damage on the M3 wrecks the Kuebel, making it impossible to advance with it.
Lol. Seriously? Pumas? They take forever to kill infantry. Guards would shred them. Flaks would jst get buttoned and they can't cap territory.
Fusiliers, do ok, but 3 snipers only need to get one shot off each before u have to retreat. This is a big manpower drain. Also you are forced into a doctrine so this is not a viable counter.
Let me know when you face a decent opponent using this strat on a map like lagreskaya. Tell me how u go with it.
At Vet 1, Pumas get Aimed shot, which easily kills snipers since it never misses. 1 Flak halftrack is a bit precarious against guards, but 2 would do quite well (especially since this strategy relies on call ins and not T3/T4). Like I said, no real direct counter to this play, but you got some good alternative strategies to carry you to late game for tanks.
As rank 1 OKW, I'd like to think I know what I'm talking about.
4 Aug 2014, 02:09 AM
#10
1 
Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4
Switching the buildings for the Luchs and the Stuka zu Fuss would fix this problem, would maybe need to have the unit effectiveness looked at but this seems like the easiest solution.
Tobis "Complete Throw"
Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
4 Aug 2014, 02:13 AM
#11
Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21
Going for a fast Anti-Inf hf takes care of the sniper problem easily imo. Considering you can get it before he can get Guards. However, making the Kubel more effective against snipers would help in this regard.(Mostly because it wont force you to tech to something you don't want to but have to because of this strat.)
4 Aug 2014, 02:22 AM
#12
Posts: 222
I think there are two possible solutions:
1. The limit of 1 sniper squad at any given time (as I suggested in a comment to one of Barton`s recent replays and as OP mentioned).
2. Make soviet sniper doctrinal and put it in doctrine(s) without elite inf or call-in armor so there are opportunity costs involved. For example switch sov sniper with m-42 light AT gun. Or make a new "sniper commander" for some $$$.
1. The limit of 1 sniper squad at any given time (as I suggested in a comment to one of Barton`s recent replays and as OP mentioned).
2. Make soviet sniper doctrinal and put it in doctrine(s) without elite inf or call-in armor so there are opportunity costs involved. For example switch sov sniper with m-42 light AT gun. Or make a new "sniper commander" for some $$$.
4 Aug 2014, 02:34 AM
#13
Posts: 184
Inf gun is like mortars. Its unreliable.
Aimed shot. So they will jst sit there with the snipers and let u do that.....?
Sorry, but the sniper Guard strat has been a problem forever, and now its even more prominent with OKW in the mix.
Less cheese = More fun!
Buff scripts and Maxims for all i care. At least they have hard counters.
Aimed shot. So they will jst sit there with the snipers and let u do that.....?
Sorry, but the sniper Guard strat has been a problem forever, and now its even more prominent with OKW in the mix.
Less cheese = More fun!
Buff scripts and Maxims for all i care. At least they have hard counters.
76561198005515393
4 Aug 2014, 03:13 AM
#14
Posts: 184
Going for a fast Anti-Inf hf takes care of the sniper problem easily imo. Considering you can get it before he can get Guards. However, making the Kubel more effective against snipers would help in this regard.(Mostly because it wont force you to tech to something you don't want to but have to because of this strat.)
So, getting a Flak will kill the snipers considering it doesnt fire on the move??
76561198005515393
4 Aug 2014, 03:14 AM
#15
Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21
Because guards somehow counter inf gun?
You'd be surprised.
4 Aug 2014, 03:15 AM
#16
Posts: 342
Permanently BannedDont even bother requesting anything to relic.
Sov sniper, Maxim, ISU 152, Rifles, US AA, IS2 all have been raised several times not just by me, yet instead of actually nerfing allies AMAZINGLY they keep nerfing Axis to the point where they are now being but raped in every single way. OH basically should be deleted from the game at this point and OKW is just a horribly built faction that has such a weak early game it has no use for its late game.
Sov sniper, Maxim, ISU 152, Rifles, US AA, IS2 all have been raised several times not just by me, yet instead of actually nerfing allies AMAZINGLY they keep nerfing Axis to the point where they are now being but raped in every single way. OH basically should be deleted from the game at this point and OKW is just a horribly built faction that has such a weak early game it has no use for its late game.
4 Aug 2014, 03:26 AM
#17
Posts: 2053
Free vet 1 smoke ability for the Flak halftrack? That doesnt help? There are several units the flak halftrack can drive into and wipe.
4 Aug 2014, 03:31 AM
#18
Posts: 184
Vet 1 ability. And what if u cant get to vet 1?
76561198005515393
4 Aug 2014, 04:02 AM
#19
Posts: 308
I think the Soviet teching system has always been a problem since day one. For early game you have the choice of choosing either the standard t2 or the cheesy t1. Really the T1 buildings is meant for cheesy strats, it's filled with things the early game Germans couldn't counter, but lacks any anti tank to be successful so you should already beat the Germans early game otherwise the chance is lost.
Even when the Soviet faction became underpowered in I think it was the March 25th update. They still gather wins by using T1 because it was still very reliable.
I really hope Relic would redesign the Soviet tech to something that would make more sense for a company of heroes game.
+1
4 Aug 2014, 04:40 AM
#20
Posts: 3
OH basically should be deleted from the game at this point and OKW is just a horribly built faction that has such a weak early game it has no use for its late game.
If this is true then how is anyone winning as OKW? How did Hans beat omgpop who is the best USA player and also beat Pi in the tournament? If they are as weak as you cry about all the time, then they should not be able to be able to win games with but clearly people do.
This is not even about faction balance anymore, this is you just playing only one side of the faction, being bad and having some sort of victim complex. Yes the game needs balancing but the amount you whine about it, I don't even understand why you play this game. Its like going to see a movie you hate, whine about 24/7 but keep going to see it.
The game needs balancing but OKW are not as weak as you make them out to be and you should really stop just playing one faction or just quit the game, or maybe just actually get good at the game.
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