2 v 2 and pop cap

Hi

I played two fun auto-matched 2 v 2s yesterday, won one and lost one.

I lost as USF and won as OKW, both games were four faction games (i.e. mixed teams).

Here's the thing - I felt the games were well-balanced in terms of player skill (I'm out there in the not-very-skilled majority) but I played better in the game I lost (i.e. USF).

Why?

I think it's pop cap. The OKW player (including me) has such epic resilience and can shrug off poor map control (on Semoisky I had 75% control) and those 'great come backs' mean for many of us 'just hang on long enough to get supertank).

I did this myself, the T34 call-in armada I was facing was crushed by a KT and a panther, not to mention my shrek legion.

Am prepared to accept L2P allegations because, as I say, I'm not the most skilled player but am enjoying 2 v 2. But when I *win* and wonder how I did it I have to ask myself if the pop cap issue is skewing outcomes disproportionately.

Oh, and if Vetlolcake is reading this, I faced upwards of eight HMG teams backed up with At guns and mortars - I stuka'd them and used, you know, micro.

Hi

I played two fun auto-matched 2 v 2s yesterday, won one and lost one.

I lost as USF and won as OKW, both games were four faction games (i.e. mixed teams).

Here's the thing - I felt the games were well-balanced in terms of player skill (I'm out there in the not-very-skilled majority) but I played better in the game I lost (i.e. USF).

Why?

I think it's pop cap. The OKW player (including me) has such epic resilience and can shrug off poor map control (on Semoisky I had 75% control) and those 'great come backs' mean for many of us 'just hang on long enough to get supertank).

I did this myself, the T34 call-in armada I was facing was crushed by a KT and a panther, not to mention my shrek legion.

Am prepared to accept L2P allegations because, as I say, I'm not the most skilled player but am enjoying 2 v 2. But when I *win* and wonder how I did it I have to ask myself if the pop cap issue is skewing outcomes disproportionately.



Oh, and if Vetlolcake is reading this, I faced upwards of eight HMG teams backed up with At guns and mortars - I stuka'd them and used, you know, micro.

It is a reality that USA pop cap can be exploited with armor decrew but I have the feeling that Okw units pop is low compared to werhmacht faction and that means that more okw squads can be fielded.

Are you talking about tying pop cap to territory control like in vCoH or simply increasing the maxim pop cap in 2v2 games?

I find the resources from dominant map control are often their own reward because they allow the winning team to grind down the opposing faction's resources through constant attacks. As long as losses are close to 1 to 1 then the team with superior map control will pull further into the lead. If nothing else, having superior map control should mean there are extra resources to spend preparing to counter the arrival of those momentum swinging heavy tanks or quickly replace the losses they inflict.

Hi
I lost as USF and won as OKW, both games were four faction games (i.e. mixed teams).

Here's the thing - I felt the games were well-balanced in terms of player skill (I'm out there in the not-very-skilled majority) but I played better in the game I lost (i.e. USF).

Why?

Because USF offers nothing over soviets in team games, you are better off the more soviets you have on your team. All the weaknesses the USA faction already suffers from in 1vs1 after the first 8-ish minutes of the game are magnified in team games while their strengths are reduced due to increased unit density on map.

Exactly.

USF have really potent early game and early-mid game.

The moment first tank rolls on the field the USF advance completely halts.
Arty choices are poor(arty faction my ass), tank choices are meh outside of EZ8.

USF simply do not scale for late game, you need to capitalize early game advantage or you'll be fighting uphill battle.

I think you all have a point about USF. In that game I simply couldn't begin to counter the Tiger and KT onslaught, despite what I thought was logical use of ATGs (meh) and Tank Destroyers *and* EZ8.

Shrek legions really are an issue for me, but the synergy between Ost and OKW means they've every base covered in a way USF and Sovs can never hope to achieve.

Hi,

I agree US has a harder time of things after the early game. But still, early game they have an advantage. Perhaps there are ways to exploit the early game advantage to help late game.

1. Tank traps:
After pushing off the Axis, start laying lines and lines of tank traps in such a way that enemy tanks will be forced to expose themselves to a flank. (build a second Rear Echelon)

2. Wire:
Lay wire behind the tank traps so vehicles can't crush it. Set up defensive positions / sandbags behind these lines. (build a second Rear Echelon)

3. Get an early fuel cache. Early on Rifles will kill off more enemy MP than they will lose. Use this discrepancy to buy a cache or two. Save for Jacksons.

4. Jacksons: Bitch-slap tank snipers. Keep them way back behind your units. Your aim should be for them to not even take one hit. You don't need to flank with them to get to rear armour. Just sit back sniping. I recommend asking a friend to do a mock 1v1 with you so you can practice getting a feel for their range. They can hit without being hit back.


So, if you've had 75% map control, you'll have a 25%+ fuel advantage + 33% default fuel advantage. You should be able to field almost 3 Jacksons for each KT even when it's 50-50. (260 OKW fuel = 350 regular fuel by default) With a large map advantage, you should be able to get 4. (in terms of fuel, not MP)





About the pop-cap thing, I'm not sure what you mean. Could you explain? Axis units have very similar popcap to Ami units and Amis even have the ability to reduce the pop-cap of their vehicles, while just 1 Sturmpio squad is almost 10% of an OKW's P-cap.

It is a reality that USA pop cap can be exploited with armor decrew but I have the feeling that Okw units pop is low compared to werhmacht faction and that means that more okw squads can be fielded.

Do you have any evidence to back up your claim? I don't see any units in OKW having unusual low pop values.

Pop cap is no longer impacted by map control, unlike vCoH. This I think might be part of the problem.