Panther has become a complete laughing stock really,tired of pointing out its too many useless attributes,like reload,dps,accuracy,price,teching,and on top being helpless vs at guns or at inf.Fake range.
Pz 4 has both better DPS and can kill both AI and AT..and doesn't miss as much.Panther is nothing more than a glorified meatshield.That too RNG dependant often.Can't kill anything.
German T4
27 Aug 2014, 06:25 AM
#61
Posts: 1705
27 Aug 2014, 06:27 AM
#62
Posts: 1705
I think this primarily comes from making it a true tank hunter; Panther, at its cost, should strike fear in anything 1v1 save IS-2s. Make it very accurate, with a fast turret rotation, up its speed a bit, and maybe a lesser accuracy penalty on the move. For the cost you're paying, and with its lack of AI power, the Panther should be a terror almost equal to a call-in heavy, capable of hunting down and destroying enemy armor.
Dream on bro.Want to use a real panther,play coh 1.
27 Aug 2014, 08:26 AM
#63
Posts: 482
I actually managed to abuse the Panther's (Ostheer) turret rotation speed to solo one with a lone T-34. The opponent wasn't very good, but still. It needs some teeth.
I think this primarily comes from making it a true tank hunter; Panther, at its cost, should strike fear in anything 1v1 save IS-2s. Make it very accurate, with a fast turret rotation, up its speed a bit, and maybe a lesser accuracy penalty on the move. For the cost you're paying, and with its lack of AI power, the Panther should be a terror almost equal to a call-in heavy, capable of hunting down and destroying enemy armor.
+1.
A tank hunter needs accuracy and less accuracy penalty on the move. If they buff Panther's accuracy, then slightly decrease the fuel cost(10 fuel maybe fine), the Panther will be ok. Then it will become a real tank hunter with low DPS but good range, accuracy, durability, and mobility.
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27 Aug 2014, 08:32 AM
#64
Posts: 1963 | Subs: 1
How about giving it a damage (180?200?) and accuracy buff but current accuracy on the move with the same speed?
+1.
A tank hunter needs accuracy and less accuracy penalty on the move. If they buff Panther's accuracy, then slightly decrease the fuel cost(10 fuel maybe fine), the Panther will be ok. Then it will become a real tank hunter with low DPS but good range, accuracy, durability, and mobility.
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27 Aug 2014, 09:14 AM
#65
Posts: 482
How about giving it a damage (180?200?) and accuracy buff but current accuracy on the move with the same speed?
A Damage increase is another solution. Maybe 240 damage per shot. Anyway, it really needs some buff now. So is the expensive Brumbar. People are waiting for relic's new patch
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27 Aug 2014, 10:15 AM
#66
Posts: 1705
- Either damage buff or big reload reduce.Accuracy 'buff'(i would ratehr call this a fix rather than a buff..thats how bad it is) is no brainer.
U can nerf range back to 40 because its useless anyway.
Right now for its performance this tank is worth maybe 150 fuel if easy eight is 135.
27 Aug 2014, 10:49 AM
#67
Posts: 752
I propose moving accuracy buff + rate of fire buff.
Ideally this unit should be in a constant motion of hunting tanks.
Ideally this unit should be in a constant motion of hunting tanks.
"You are competitive if play to win and make efforts to improve." -Basilone
27 Aug 2014, 10:52 AM
#68
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
I propose moving accuracy buff + rate of fire buff.
Ideally this unit should be in a constant motion of hunting tanks.
Yep, sounds fair. + 1 to this.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
27 Aug 2014, 10:59 AM
#69
Posts: 752
Yep, sounds fair. + 1 to this.
Yeah, I figure a moving accuracy buff gives some character, and helps compensate indirectly the deplorable base accuracy in a way that represents the unit being constantly moving in engagements.
The rate of of fire buff helps compensate dmg and penetration by simple means of sheer number of shots fired.
"You are competitive if play to win and make efforts to improve." -Basilone
27 Aug 2014, 17:07 PM
#70
Posts: 2742
Changing damage and penetration upsets a great deal of balance between all sorts of units, not just heavy tanks. It'd affect balance with trucks and light vehicles as well. Changing where and how the RNG affects gameplay (Accuracy, RoF) is much more preferable.
(Last thing we want is to have panthers always one shot halftracks or something, so they up the armor of halftracks to compensate, making panzerfausts and shreks deal hardly any damage, so they increase the damage of shreks, which makes SU85s die in half a second to shreks, so then health of SU85s gets skyrocketed, and then panthers can't even deal enough damage fast enough to SU85s so the damage of panthers seems like it's lacking again... You know, the standard dangers of balancing via raw numbers.)
(Last thing we want is to have panthers always one shot halftracks or something, so they up the armor of halftracks to compensate, making panzerfausts and shreks deal hardly any damage, so they increase the damage of shreks, which makes SU85s die in half a second to shreks, so then health of SU85s gets skyrocketed, and then panthers can't even deal enough damage fast enough to SU85s so the damage of panthers seems like it's lacking again... You know, the standard dangers of balancing via raw numbers.)
Strategic Territory Points Mod:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
28 Aug 2014, 08:50 AM
#71
Posts: 954
Butt back to 960HP and increase accuracy, and slightly increase AI capability, then it worth the 175fuel.
And, why bother use Panther A as basic model for OKW as COH2 is late war themed don't be lazy please.
And, why bother use Panther A as basic model for OKW as COH2 is late war themed don't be lazy please.
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think
28 Aug 2014, 09:31 AM
#72
Posts: 400
Wehrmacht's Panther definitely needs to be buffed to match Oberkommando's one. It would have more accuracy, more accuracy on the move, better AI.
Since Relic is working on Wehr T4, we can expect this unit to be buffed in the process, as it is the main battle tank of that tech tier. I just hope they don't reduce it's cost, but rather make it's performance on par with what the player has invested to get it.
Brummbar needs some love too, but i would let Werfer where it is right now, it has utility in large team games, and if the other units of the tier are attractive, Panzerwerfer would see more action (because people would tech to t4 anyway, so why not use that sexy mobile arty ?).
Since Relic is working on Wehr T4, we can expect this unit to be buffed in the process, as it is the main battle tank of that tech tier. I just hope they don't reduce it's cost, but rather make it's performance on par with what the player has invested to get it.
Brummbar needs some love too, but i would let Werfer where it is right now, it has utility in large team games, and if the other units of the tier are attractive, Panzerwerfer would see more action (because people would tech to t4 anyway, so why not use that sexy mobile arty ?).
28 Aug 2014, 10:25 AM
#73
Posts: 67
Buff it because its not OP anymore ? Pretty weak arguments ...
28 Aug 2014, 11:12 AM
#74
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
Buff it because its not OP anymore ? Pretty weak arguments ...
Well, tell us how you feel when you build it and use it - if you used it at all. Or how many tanks has your opponent on the battlefield when you manage to build it. Or how you stop 3 T34s with it.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
28 Aug 2014, 11:31 AM
#75
Posts: 1217
Butt back to 960HP and increase accuracy, and slightly increase AI capability, then it worth the 175fuel.This. I don´t get why the Panther has the same HP as a T-34/85. Despite being designated as medium tank, the Panther is in the weight- and price-class of an IS-2 (at least for the first Panther) and this should be reflected accordingly.
And, why bother use Panther A as basic model for OKW as COH2 is late war themed don't be lazy please.
28 Aug 2014, 12:11 PM
#76
Posts: 400
Buff it because its not OP anymore ? Pretty weak arguments ...
And you, what do you bring to the table, except trolling ?
28 Aug 2014, 12:14 PM
#77
Posts: 1963 | Subs: 1
Nothing else. Maybe cigars? Whisky?
And you, what do you bring to the table, except trolling ?
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3 Sep 2014, 01:35 AM
#78
Posts: 205
Permanently Banned
3 Sep 2014, 04:08 AM
#79
Posts: 205
Permanently BannedIt's literally the worst thing in this game. I can't tell you how many games I've thrown, where I've had a massive lead, and throw all my resources into 3-4 panthers, only to have them lose me every game I play. The Panther for the Ostheer are just garbage: They are very expensive to tech to and build, mediocre anti tank damage, and some of the worst anti infantry damage around (even with the 60 muni MG upgrade). Their only redeeming quality is their larger armor and HP (which doesn't really matter since they can hardly take on medium tanks, let alone heavy tanks).
The counter to T34s (76 & 85) and Shermans should be the Panther! But no, The panther struggles heavily versus these units due to its lackluster damage and poor accuracy.
The Brummbar is more often than not worthless - misses way too much and leaves you generally very vulnerable to tanks (I get it's a niche unit, but it doesn't even fulfill its anti infantry role well).
I may as well just build a P4, which does very similar damage at more than half the cost. Now I see why people just go for tigers.
The Panther needs some buffs here.. either a significant reduction in cost or a damage buff.
The OKW Panther seems to do better. Probably because the OKW roster has better support units to cover the panthers weakness of crap damage.
B
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