Decrease please the Anti Air efficiency of OKW..

Hello Guys,

Please decrease the Anti Air efficiency of OKW T4
Because it is too strong against:

* Thunderbolt
* Lend Lease Air (Fuel) drop
- The Lend Lease commander builds on the Fuel drop because the Sherman is the main Tank there and it couldnt be that this Advantage will be destroyed easy by the Truck.

And why does the German Fraction has an Big Artillery Advantage? I think the Game is designed of the year 1944.

Why German Artillery can be used in Enemy's Territory and Allied Artillery only in sightable Doctrine?
And why are the German Artillery Strikes cheaper than the Allied pendants if the US had more Artillery than the Germans?

And why Russians had NO NO NO Artillery Strike?? It was THE Artillery Fraction
See this (Russian-German1.) (German-US2.) Battles for Examples:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kursk

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Berlin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Bulge

And dont bring the Argue: "It needs to be balanced, it can't be realistic and balanced at all"

Yeah, then answer me, why:

* Mg42 is the strongest and has the highest radius and can bring down light vehicles?
* German Tanks the strongest?
* German infantry very strong and with very good technology? (Stg44, infrared, and and and)

I am not a US-Fanboy
And i am German as myself (U see it in my Bad english Knowledge), lol.

Hello Guys,

Please decrease the Anti Air efficiency of OKW T4
Because it is too strong against:

* Thunderbolt
* Lend Lease Air (Fuel) drop
- The Lend Lease commander builds on the Fuel drop because the Sherman is the main Tank there and it couldnt be that this Advantage will be destroyed easy by the Truck.

And why does the German Fraction has an Big Artillery Advantage? I think the Game is designed of the year 1944.

Why German Artillery can be used in Enemy's Territory and Allied Artillery only in sightable Doctrine?
And why are the German Artillery Strikes cheaper than the Allied pendants if the US had more Artillery than the Germans?

And why Russians had NO NO NO Artillery Strike?? It was THE Artillery Fraction
See this (Russian-German1.) (German-US2.) Battles for Examples:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kursk

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Berlin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Bulge

And dont bring the Argue: "It needs to be balanced, it can't be realistic and balanced at all"

Yeah, then answer me, why:

* Mg42 is the strongest and has the highest radius and can bring down light vehicles?
* German Tanks the strongest?
* German infantry very strong and with very good technology? (Stg44, infrared, and and and)

I am not a US-Fanboy
And i am German as myself (U see it in my Bad english Knowledge), lol.

You made a good point about lend-lease fuel. Does anyone know, is it posible to drop it in a place so it takes a different path away from the OKW truck? Or is it just imposible?

BUT:

Why German Artillery can be used in Enemy's Territory and Allied Artillery only in sightable Doctrine?

That's not true. Soviet and American artillery can also be dropped on enemy territory and bases.
The only artillery that can be dropped without LoS is OKW's breakthrough artillery.

And why Russians had NO NO NO Artillery Strike??

Soviets have the most and the best artillery pieces in the game. Check your doctrines. They also have bombing runs, which can destroy the heaviest German tanks.



I should say that "balance" doesn't mean both armies have identical units. It means That for every strength, there is a weakness.

* Mg42 is the strongest and has the highest radius and can bring down light vehicles?

A Maxim will beat an MG42 in a fight.
A maxim has a quicker set-up/pack-up time.
A Maxim has 6-men crew, not 4. It is harder to handle with a sniper.
So yes, it has a smaler cone but it has more power and is harder to flank.

* German infantry very strong and with very good technology? (Stg44, infrared, and and and)

Soviets have the second strongest infantry in the game - shock troopers. Only Obersoldaten can be considered better and even they can be beaten by shocks with use of smoke and grenades.



Honestly, I think if you try to play 20 games as the Germans, you will see some of the strengths of the Allied forces and some new weaknesses of the Germans.

Balance is quite good right now. But it will always seem imbalanced if you play an imbalanced number of games with one side.

Avid user of Land Lease here. The base guns have a high probability of destroying the supply drop in route.

it mostly comes down to the way the factions are designed.

The faction that is supposed to be made out of mostly recruits because all of its veterans are dead and is supposed to have the most tanks out of the axis faction (OKW) , is the complete opposite.

In reality, germans in 1944 made much much more tanks than IN any other year of the war, they rivalled the soviets in terms of tank production, in 1944, the quality of troops wasn't very elite at all, since most veterans were dead. But with OKW,we have the exact opposite.
Volksgrenadiers divisions, that were meant to have a higher allocation of automatic weaponry and stuff, have no upgrades at all.

A faction that particuraly lacked armed personell carriers (soviet union) and therefore had to heavily utlize tank riders, has the most halftracks in the GAME. M3+M5. A faction that had the most artillery in WW2 (soviets) have pretty much the worst arty in the game. A faction that heavily utilized submachine guns, and also had plenty of light machine guns, has all of these weapons locked away in seperate doctrines. A faction that stressed combined arms (soviet deep battle), is designed around stupid spam. And is locked away with 2 tiers.

A faction that lost most of its airstrenght and was practically devoid of any air support in 1944 (ostheer) , has the most close air support abilities in the GAME. The mg42, without denial, the best machine gun in the war, is surpassed by some old WW1 maxim technology.

A faction that HAD the MOST sophiscated air support and artirelly coordination (USA) has only 1 air support ability and pretty poor ish off map strikes (time on target takes like 14 seconds to arrive).

It's like relic took the armies how they were IRL, and made them the complete opposite of what they really were.

btw, i'm not bitching about the balance here, just bitching about how the factions are designed in a completely ahistorical way.

Don't even get me started on complete nonsense like the IS-2s main gun having more penetration thant the king tigers main gun, however, king tiger having the superior anti infantry power....

wow i never thought about it that way burts....most logical post i've seen on here in a bit.

A faction that HAD the MOST sophiscated air support and artirelly coordination (USA) has only 1 air support ability and pretty poor ish off map strikes (time on target takes like 14 seconds to arrive).

My inner (and outer) Brit is recoiling in revulsion right now :C :C :C

My inner (and outer) Brit is recoiling in revulsion right now :C :C :C

Well, when i was talking about air support and artillery, i suppose i should of said allies.

My inner (and outer) Brit is recoiling in revulsion right now :C :C :C

Mustangs, Lightnings and Thunderbolts > Spitfires all day long

The Germans still had a lot of elite units and veteran soldiers in 1944, until they lost most of them in the massive battles from operation overlord and bagration.

1944 was also the year the Germans made most of the aircraft.

I also would like to see more air abilities from the American ( how bout b17 carpet bombing.... HOLY SHIT) but the Soviets have no shortage of artillery in CoH2, it's just that the Soviet players don't use the artillery doctrine as much except the B4 which is very powerul, and probably too powerful, if Stuka airstrike isn't available.

Other than that I do feel the Soviet faction doesn't seem Soviet enough for me. The Soviet faction is CoH2 are only able to field the same amount of guns, tanks and artillery as the Germans in the game, while during the war the Soviets heavily outnumber the Germans in every kind of equipment except halftracks. If only the Soviets have cheaper, weaker tanks and an manpower upgrade center like the Americans have in vCoH.

The Germans still had a lot of elite units and veteran soldiers in 1944, until they lost most of them in the massive battles from operation overlord and bagration.

1944 was also the year the Germans made most of the aircraft.

I also would like to see more air abilities from the American ( how bout b17 carpet bombing.... HOLY SHIT) but the Soviets have no shortage of artillery in CoH2, it's just that the Soviet players don't use the artillery doctrine as much except the B4 which is very powerul, and probably too powerful, if Stuka airstrike isn't available.

Other than that I do feel the Soviet faction doesn't seem Soviet enough for me. The Soviet faction is CoH2 are only able to field the same amount of guns, tanks and artillery as the Germans in the game, while during the war the Soviets heavily outnumber the Germans in every kind of equipment except halftracks. If only the Soviets have cheaper, weaker tanks and an manpower upgrade center like the Americans have in vCoH.

No they didint really have alot of elite troops at all. German quality of troops was best in 1941, then got worse and worse starting from 1942, this is nothing unusual, they simply died fighting. The soviets do have a shortage of artillery, for example, look at oberkommando, they have all kinds of off map arty strikes, scavenge doctrine, breakthruogh doctrine, and these are pretty much the best off map strikes in the game, this is something that should belong to the soviets, not the OKW. And what do the soviet have? ML-20, B4 (which is horrible), and incendiarty, no real off map barrage. And by 1944, most planes were BF 109s, meant to fight allied bombers and ground attack aircraft and of course enemy fighters, the attacking capabilities of the luftwaffe, in 1944, needless to say, were completely worn out.

It's interesting how COH 1 from a historical perspective made alot of sense. Allied airpower (airborne doc) was very well reflected in the game. Allied artillery superiority (howitzer, off map artillery and calliope was also reflected in the game.

Wehrmachts heavy usaage of MG 42 was suprisingly, also reflected in the game (mg 42 was amazing)
and generally even the small things, like volksgrenadiers havigna higher allocation of automatic weaponry was also reflected in the game (squad leader had mp 44, it acted like a k98, but it was added a nice touch)

Panzer elite AKA Panzer lehr division, which had all of it's battalions equipped with halftracks (where most mechanized divisions only had 1 battalion and rest trucks) was reflected in the game with panzer lehr having a crap ton of halftracks and other light vehicles.


The brits, well the brits did not make too much of sense, but atleast they made more sense than the soviets, because the soviets in this game are completely out of place in historical terms.

It's probaly because relic overdid the whole stereotypical and cliched portrayal of the red army WHERE IN SOVIET RUSSIA WE JUST CHARGE ENDLESSLY INTO GERMAN MACHINE GUNS BECAUSE WE STUPID AND WE ALSO FIGHT WITH STICKS HAR HAR.


Oh, and it's also interesting how there is smoke canisters modeled on the t-34, yet the german tanks which don't have them, are the ones who get them in-game, it's very clear why they did this.

And it's also very interesting how OKW is supposed to be elite faction, okay , lets say these veterans came back from the dead or that OKW is some panzer lehr division or something, however , they do not have a single halftrack. The very HALLMARK of an elite force.

A Maxim has 6-men crew, not 4. It is harder to handle with a sniper.

Stop this myth. The Wehr sniper has a higher ROF than the Soviet sniper to compensate for the bigger squad sizes that Soviets have.

No they didint really have alot of elite troops at all. German quality of troops was best in 1941, then got worse and worse starting from 1942, this is nothing unusual, they simply died fighting. The soviets do have a shortage of artillery, for example, look at oberkommando, they have all kinds of off map arty strikes, scavenge doctrine, breakthruogh doctrine, and these are pretty much the best off map strikes in the game, this is something that should belong to the soviets, not the OKW. And what do the soviet have? ML-20, B4 (which is horrible), and incendiarty, no real off map barrage. And by 1944, most planes were BF 109s, meant to fight allied bombers and ground attack aircraft and of course enemy fighters, the attacking capabilities of the luftwaffe, in 1944, needless to say, were completely worn out.

It's interesting how COH 1 from a historical perspective made alot of sense. Allied airpower (airborne doc) was very well reflected in the game. Allied artillery superiority (howitzer, off map artillery and calliope was also reflected in the game.

Wehrmachts heavy usaage of MG 42 was suprisingly, also reflected in the game (mg 42 was amazing)
and generally even the small things, like volksgrenadiers havigna higher allocation of automatic weaponry was also reflected in the game (squad leader had mp 44, it acted like a k98, but it was added a nice touch)

Panzer elite AKA Panzer lehr division, which had all of it's battalions equipped with halftracks (where most mechanized divisions only had 1 battalion and rest trucks) was reflected in the game with panzer lehr having a crap ton of halftracks and other light vehicles.


The brits, well the brits did not make too much of sense, but atleast they made more sense than the soviets, because the soviets in this game are completely out of place in historical terms.

It's probaly because relic overdid the whole stereotypical and cliched portrayal of the red army WHERE IN SOVIET RUSSIA WE JUST CHARGE ENDLESSLY INTO GERMAN MACHINE GUNS BECAUSE WE STUPID AND WE ALSO FIGHT WITH STICKS HAR HAR.


Oh, and it's also interesting how there is smoke canisters modeled on the t-34, yet the german tanks which don't have them, are the ones who get them in-game, it's very clear why they did this.

And it's also very interesting how OKW is supposed to be elite faction, okay , lets say these veterans came back from the dead or that OKW is some panzer lehr division or something, however , they do not have a single halftrack. The very HALLMARK of an elite force.

What did you expect from Relic? Some serious historical research and on some level historical based design? Well, that will never happen, just check some names of units (obersoldaten).

What did you expect from Relic? Some serious historical research and on some level historical based design? Well, that will never happen, just check some names of units (obersoldaten).

Well, i don't want a documentary, they can make certain things ahistorical for the sake of fun/gameplay, but i would like them to atleast get the basic facts right :/

OKW does have 3 variants of the 251, but none that support infantry directly like Ostheer's 251.

Well, i don't want a documentary, they can make certain things ahistorical for the sake of fun/gameplay, but i would like them to atleast get the basic facts right :/

After all, this is a f***** game, and most of the units are correctly mirrored into COH2.
Balance>Realism at all times.

After all, this is a f***** game, and most of the units are correctly mirrored into COH2.
Balance>Realism at all times.

That is what i said in the Beginning of my Post!
Balance>All - Aha.

MG42 - Realistic
German Tanks stronger - Realistic

And so...

Burts tank u for your posting,
I have no Time actually, will response later!

Well, i don't want a documentary, they can make certain things ahistorical for the sake of fun/gameplay, but i would like them to atleast get the basic facts right :/

You have historical facts on the bulletin descriptions.

Gameplay needs to be healthy.

That is what i said in the Beginning of my Post!
Balance>All - Aha.

MG42 - Realistic
German Tanks stronger - Realistic

And so...

Burts tank u for your posting,
I have no Time actually, will response later!

Thats why i didn't quote you, but Burts

You have historical facts on the bulletin descriptions.

Gameplay needs to be healthy.

Yes, but all that can be done also being realism. Imagine this, german grenadiers would not be as good as conscripts, because 6>4, however german MG 42, would be much better than maxim. That would encuorage less spam and combined arms. Maxims would still be built, they would still suppress infantry, but deal overall much less damage than the mg 42.

T-34/76 would have more armor, but a considerably less powerful gun than a PIV, and the panzer IV would scale better, due to having a big armor bonus at vet 2. VET 0 PIV is the G version , VET 2 PIV is the H version with upgraded armor. All in all, these vehicles would be mostly equal, with the panzer IV having some slightly better features (extended vision range, pintle mounted machine gun, good scaleability because of vet 2) while t-34/76 would have overall similar stats however be much faster . Something like this for fuel cost 110 for t-34, 120 for PIV. Overall these vehicles would be quite equal, but also much different at the same time.

However, germans would have the STUG, which would have more armour than the T-34, a better gun,and HP buff to 640. but overall would have a big minus, lack of a turret.

The t-34/85 would outclass all of these vehicles, however, the stug could still go toe to toe with it.

And of course panther would easily destroy a t-34/85, and be more or less comparable to the IS-2, with panther being mostly equal in AT power, however IS-2 would have a slow reload,making it less good in tank fights, however would be perfect for anti-infantry duties. and panther would have decent anti-inf, (slightly less than say, a PIV), overall IS-2 would still win vs a panther, however, panther would just be slightly more expensive than a PIV, say, 150 or 155 fuel and IS-2 would be a very expensive 240 fuel tank.

The tiger would be somewhere in between the panther and the t-34/85, somewhat better than the t-34/85 in terms of armor and firepower and AT power, but not as good in mobility and cost. While the panther would beat the tiger in terms of armor, AT power, speed, but lose in anti infantry firepower. After all, the panther should be overall better than the tiger, why? Because of high tech cost of T4.

ZIS-3 could have it's barrage for free , however, penetration would equal the t-34. Pak 40 would still retain its very strong penetration, TWP would be fixed. So in the end, zis-3 would not be very effective againts againts heavy armor, but rather be a good artillery piece + decent AT. While PAK 40 would still be quite effective againts all tanks, and possible only struggle somewhat againts IS-2.

The su-76 would simply be a ZIS-3 on wheels, with 400 hp (not the 320 hp it has now), and su-76 should have direct fire effective againts infantry, however it's range nerfed to 50.

SU-85 would just be a t-34/85 without a turret, so it would come cheaper, t-34/85 would cost 140 fuel, su-85 would cost say 120. 50 range, same as a panther, stug. However it would also get the AI performance of a t-34/85. It's mobility would also be buffed. Of course, big minus like the stug, no turret.

Or to be honest, scrap the whole shitty idea of tanks having different ranges. All tanks and at guns = 50 range. Only exception would be isu-152,elephant,king tiger,jagtiger

Everything can be balanced and ALSO realistic at the same time, you just have to think and it will work.

Thats why i didn't quote you, but Burts

Explain me, please. :-)