What is everyone's thoughts on the Kubelwagon at the moment? Personally I feel that the kubelwagon tries to do too many things at once and doesn't do anything well and lacks a clear specified role. Here are some things I would like to see Changed -
1. Movement Issues -Give the unit the ability to move like the Schwimmwagen from Coh 1. The way the unit moves now currently feels like the old whermacht motorbike in which it lunges forward first before being able to move backwards.
2. Veterancy - The XP requirements should be lowered. Currently it is impossible to get a Max vet Kubelwagon in a normal game. Why have a unit go up to vet 5 if it could never reach it?
3. Proper Role - Currently OKW have some issues with current Maxim Spam. Instead of nerfing the maxim (which is fine vs whermact) I would rather see the Kubelwagon lose its surpression(or gained later via vet) and become a counter to MGs. In Coh 1 flanking an MG with a Jeeps/Bikes could be used to counter MGs (at the very least do some damage) Currently if you flank an MG with the Kubelwagon it will tickle it while it sets up again.
Kubelwagon Idea's and Possible Improvements
29 Jul 2014, 22:17 PM
#1
Posts: 658
31 Jul 2014, 19:29 PM
#2
15 
Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5
removing its suppression would leave OKW with no non-doctrinal early game suppression of any kind at all. Seems like a bad idea.
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31 Jul 2014, 19:47 PM
#3
Posts: 604
My take would be: Give it a front armor bonus while it is set up, as well as a range increase. So it would behave roughly like a normal HMG in both range and durability.
To balance it, decrease its damage (at least while set up) and decrease its vision range to normal infantry levels. HMGs need a spotter to use their whole distance and so should the Kübelwagen. It should simply be a suppression tool with rather low damage.
Maybe also add a "Spähwagen" ugrade that gives it back its scout vision range, removes the setup BS and turns it into a pure damage/scout vehicle.
There could also be a HMG42 upgrade that increases its damage and suppression (available once you have a truck set up, like grenades). Mainly for scaling into the late game.
Or allow veteran crews to abandon the Kübel to become a HMG34-squad once you have 2 trucks set up. That way you can take the profit from keeping your Kübel alive for that long and move it onto a more durable platform (4 infantry are tougher than the Kübel once Bazookas/Vehicles appear).
To balance it, decrease its damage (at least while set up) and decrease its vision range to normal infantry levels. HMGs need a spotter to use their whole distance and so should the Kübelwagen. It should simply be a suppression tool with rather low damage.
Maybe also add a "Spähwagen" ugrade that gives it back its scout vision range, removes the setup BS and turns it into a pure damage/scout vehicle.
There could also be a HMG42 upgrade that increases its damage and suppression (available once you have a truck set up, like grenades). Mainly for scaling into the late game.
Or allow veteran crews to abandon the Kübel to become a HMG34-squad once you have 2 trucks set up. That way you can take the profit from keeping your Kübel alive for that long and move it onto a more durable platform (4 infantry are tougher than the Kübel once Bazookas/Vehicles appear).
31 Jul 2014, 19:54 PM
#4
Posts: 627
Kubel is fine as is.
Light vehicle for early game map control which you can lose eventually and salvage for a bit of fuel. Lower pop cap than the same cost Volksgren squad so your income takes a smaller hit to offset the loss of your kubel at a later date.
Light vehicle for early game map control which you can lose eventually and salvage for a bit of fuel. Lower pop cap than the same cost Volksgren squad so your income takes a smaller hit to offset the loss of your kubel at a later date.
31 Jul 2014, 19:56 PM
#5
Posts: 692
My take would be: Give it a front armor bonus while it is set up, as well as a range increase. So it would behave roughly like a normal HMG in both range and durability.
never going to happen unless you drastically nerf the kubel's speed
31 Jul 2014, 20:24 PM
#6
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
i think the problem with kubels is the way suppression works. a suppressed squad cant do much damage to a normal mg squad because suppression lowers accuracy by 75%. it also raises cooldown and reload times, but thats much less significant. the lower accuracy alone cuts the dps to only 1/4.
the problem is, kubels are vehicles with a target size. this pretty much negates the entire accuracy penalty, and squads will still hit a kubel almost 100% of the time. having 4 armor helps this, but doesnt change the fact that a suppressed squad and an unsupressed squad deal almost the same amount of damage to the kubel.
the problem is, kubels are vehicles with a target size. this pretty much negates the entire accuracy penalty, and squads will still hit a kubel almost 100% of the time. having 4 armor helps this, but doesnt change the fact that a suppressed squad and an unsupressed squad deal almost the same amount of damage to the kubel.
31 Jul 2014, 21:36 PM
#7
Posts: 604
Well, a frontal armor bonus while set up would avoid most of that. It would still be vulnerable when flanked and while moving.
31 Jul 2014, 22:42 PM
#8
Posts: 332
I'd like to see the kubel get a small buff while on the move. It is just awful trying to chase down fleeing squads, even more so when compared to the M3/WC51, hell even the 221/222, ok yes the Kubel hit's the field slightly earlier, doesn't cost fuel and has Suppression (when set up).
The buff would be nice to use kubel as a unit to flank early MG's like how the M3 and 221 are used, it'd fill the role nice as Okw has no good early flanking light vehicle to get behind set up teams.
The buff would be nice to use kubel as a unit to flank early MG's like how the M3 and 221 are used, it'd fill the role nice as Okw has no good early flanking light vehicle to get behind set up teams.
1 Aug 2014, 05:28 AM
#9
Posts: 647
i feel that they are a very powerful unit in the right hands, just like the jackson or the old su85.
a build order with 3x cons and 1x maxim, its really difficult to fight a combo of sturmpios and volks with kubel.
a build order with 3x cons and 1x maxim, its really difficult to fight a combo of sturmpios and volks with kubel.
1 Aug 2014, 07:06 AM
#10
Posts: 807
I don't use it. Why waste mp on a unit that at one moment in the game (and that is usually pretty soon) will be blown to pieces? Better build a volks squad instead, they have a chance to finish the game. Is to weak in my opinion and it doesn't pay off. But this depends on playstyle. My playstyle it's not verry agressive. My decisions in early game as OKW are having in view the late game actualy. I believe that factions are pretty balanced right now and, unless your oponent is clearly weaker than you, you won't win in the first 10 minutes. It's like chess: it's good to have a strong early game that will give you an advantage, but the game willbe won by the guy who has the strongest endgame.
1 Aug 2014, 07:13 AM
#11
Posts: 2053
Would be cool if a destroyed kubelwagen has a usable mg platform in the wreckage to be picked up by volks and to be used as an infantry crew mg, but given to how kubels die rather far into the lines, it would be giving the enemy a free mg.
1 Aug 2014, 07:28 AM
#12
Posts: 66
what if kubelwagen and maybe m3 never exploded when killed with small arms and the crew just gets killed(abandoned), its hp passes to be only the crew hp very similar to at guns, since these kind of small non-armoured cars can actually die to small arms i think they should be treated like infantry or team weapons.
1 Aug 2014, 07:35 AM
#13
Posts: 66
Would be cool if a destroyed kubelwagen has a usable mg platform in the wreckage to be picked up by volks and to be used as an infantry crew mg, but given to how kubels die rather far into the lines, it would be giving the enemy a free mg.
oh wait, your idea is even better. i have another idea , what if small cars received reduced accuracy from small arms when they are moving/retreating so when your kubelwagen gets flanked it actually can retreat and not get killed unlike any other non-mobile hmg that should insta die as it is intended when flanked, kinda like movies when people cant shoot effectively to cars that are escaping. Of course that would mean nerfing kubelwagen accuracy when moving too.
1 Aug 2014, 08:18 AM
#14
Posts: 1439
Don't use Kubel. Not that I didn't try. As someone else said it dies too fast and it can even be focused down by suppressed infantry hence its target size. Limited range and suppression after few seconds means that a good opponent will focus it down and destroy quickly.
No idea how to fix it. Instant suppression would be too strong same goes for better range.
No idea how to fix it. Instant suppression would be too strong same goes for better range.
1 Aug 2014, 08:49 AM
#15
Posts: 379
I think Kubel is fine.
1 Aug 2014, 08:55 AM
#16
Posts: 100
Kubel is fine as is.
Light vehicle for early game map control which you can lose eventually and salvage for a bit of fuel. Lower pop cap than the same cost Volksgren squad so your income takes a smaller hit to offset the loss of your kubel at a later date.
It is definitelly not fine since it cant even espace M3 souct car which is stupid. So at least speed should be increased and for love of God pathfinding needs to be fixed.
1 Aug 2014, 17:25 PM
#17
Posts: 304
I think all it really needs is either a smaller target profile to make it harder to kill, or some better pathing/speed. Basically it's just too risky to use since it only takes seconds to kill and there's not enough time to save it.
If it could skid-turn like a tank (unrealistic/impossible, I know) it might be better than having to try and do a three-point turn? Maybe even just make it faster to reverse or something, anything to let it get away fast enough to survive and be repaired.
If it could skid-turn like a tank (unrealistic/impossible, I know) it might be better than having to try and do a three-point turn? Maybe even just make it faster to reverse or something, anything to let it get away fast enough to survive and be repaired.
1 Aug 2014, 18:26 PM
#18
Posts: 728
It is very much fine as it is. In the right hands they always pair it with a strumpioneer. Suppress the squad(s) strumpioneer runs in forces you to retreat or wipes you. It has good speed to run away from flanking inf too. You throw a rifle grenade at it ? it continues to suppress your units while the strum simply repairs it. In the right hands it is very much capable of giving you the early game advantage especially against US as they have 0 early game supression thanks to volley fire nerf. And also it is a light cheap early game vehicle used for exactly what I just said how long do you really think it is going to last like any light vehicles??
1 Aug 2014, 20:07 PM
#19
Posts: 414
I want to love the kubel but it's junk.
1 Aug 2014, 20:14 PM
#20
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
It's junk if you can't micro the unit. In the hands of a good player it's a pretty nice early game unit.
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