Elefant

This unit and its commanders have basically become extinct unlike isu.Its immensely costly,comes very late,extremely slow..now only 70 range and thus easily flanked.It also had health nerf before range nerf..can't do anything to inf and now very vulnerable to bazookas.So my question is why is this unit not being looked at?

Range buff would regress on the recent changes,so no but i feel it needs cost reduction to around 200 fuel for people to consider using it as a lategame option,given how vulnerable it is now and sloow,plus no anti infantry this would be imo only way to make these 2 commanders useable again.

Thoughts.

The main problem imo was that the units range was reduced exactly as the ISU's one. So both tanks now have 70 range what makes at least the Elefant pretty useless because it's main role before the nerf was to be an excellent tank hunter that was in need of a spotter.
Sure 100 range might have been too much but I think the Elefant needs more range than the ISU because it has no other role than a tank destroyer.
ISU however can wipe squads easily while a single guards troop could take out an unprotected Elefant.

My team mates used the Elefant in our last game to decent effect. But I don't know if they would use it in a 1on1. Mostly they just started to build it again because we really struggle to deal with enemy ISU-152s in our team games very often.

Became extinct, because the reasons stated above

The ISU is useful in all situations, reduce in range helps but doesn't fix the broken nature of this unit. It does 240 dmg (good for AT) and can 1 hit wipe AT guns, and wipe infantry in 1-2 shots.

The elephant needs 80 range at least.

duplicate

It's still a good way for Ost to kill an ISU if there's no OKW Jagd around.

That is literally the only thing you need to build it for. Unless you're on Minsk Pocket, anyway.

It's still a good way for Ost to kill an ISU if there's no OKW Jagd around.

That is literally the only thing you need to build it for. Unless you're on Minsk Pocket, anyway.

While ISU can exist as a unit by itself..fair?Lol.

Elefant still beats ISU face to face, and Ost still has a lot of effective AT units to try a flank.

Is not easy to destroy an Elefant even with a ISU.
I particularly hate these stalemates between heavy tanks were both of them are so powerful and expensive that you don't want to risk them trying to destroy your enemy super tank.

I find it funny how every single time when axis unit is brought back to a normal level of power it becomes instantly extinct.

Ever considered the possibility that just because you can't a-move every other unit, it doesn't mean your unit is bad, bu tits balanced?

ISUs are present, because player allow them that by not building elephants to punish them.

If course a soviet unit will be more present if axis players go butthurt mode about loosing OP unit that is now balanced and still would hardcounter said soviet unit.

I find it funny how every single time when axis unit is brought back to a normal level of power it becomes instantly extinct.

Ever considered the possibility that just because you can't a-move every other unit, it doesn't mean your unit is bad, bu tits balanced?

so a useless elephant is balanced? and the ISU rape machine is balanced?

Building an elephant does not "punish" the ISU player, because the ISU player can still get in range of a VP, wipe a squad, and back off. All the elephant does is prevent the ISU from pushing. Elephant meanwhile can't support pushes because it has no AI capability.

The elephant isn't used because there isn't a good reason to get it over the Jagdtiger in 2v2, which is the only the time Elephant is good anyway.

ISUs are present, because player allow them that by not building elephants to punish them.

Your logic is similar to 'build raketenwerfer 2 minutes into game to counter WC51'. Raketenwerfer does not properly counter the Dodge per se- it denies a small area of the map. That is all the Raketen does. The Dodge can shuttle BAR rifles and chase squads and do whatever it wants to do elsewhere and the best the Rak can do is creep up and make the Dodge go somewhere else.

The Dodge is the ISU, the Raketen is the Elefant. If the Dodge appears in an avenue the elefant doesn't cover, it can own anything in front of it (save the Jagdtiger). If the Elefant appears in an avenue the ISU isn't? It can't do anything to units with two feet and a rifle. The Elefant can't chase the ISU, and the first real opportunity to actually kill only arrives at vet 1. Worse still- button, one AT gun shot (which the Elefant can't do anything to fight against), an offmap, Mark Target, et cetera can allow the ISU to go head on with it's 'hard counter' and win.

Guess what happens if it wins? You lose everything in range not behind a shotblock- tanks, infantry, crewed weapons. What happens if the Elefant forces the ISU back or god forbid, destroys it? It isn't going to help your infantry push against anything, that's for sure. It becomes a dead weight unless tanks present themselves to it.

And before you say the Elefant can kill other vehicles too, not just the ISU- the ISU does that just as well.

The problem I see is that if the elefant gets a range buff, the ISU becomes obsolete when the elefant hits the feild, and with scopes other tanks will become serously thretened again

my solution is give elefant 85 range and reduce damage from 320 to 160 whilst keeping the same penetration value.

this will allow other tanks to not get 2 shotted and move away.

ISU can't turn their turret. And soviet AT are very lackluster.
Trying to counter an ISU with elefant seems to me a bad choice.

Just spam cheaper and faster tanks like PzIV and Pumas and rush the ISU as it doesn't have good rear armor.

The problem I see is that if the elefant gets a range buff, the ISU becomes obsolete when the elefant hits the feild, and with scopes other tanks will become serously thretened again

my solution is give elefant 85 range and reduce damage from 320 to 160 whilst keeping the same penetration value.

this will allow other tanks to not get 2 shotted and move away.

Wow, it's more a nerf then if ur going to reduce it damage by that much... Even with more range ISU won't become obsolete. And, elephant is pure AT vehicle, if ISU can deal infantry with ease and have power to deal with any tank, then i think elephant should have atleast better range than ISU, and keep same damage against vehicles. That would bring it to balance somehow. If that is too much then hell, give him same range, AI and AT damage as ISU, ISU can have more HP and ferdi more armor...

ISU can't turn their turret. And soviet AT are very lackluster.
Trying to counter an ISU with elefant seems to me a bad choice.

Just spam cheaper and faster tanks like PzIV and Pumas and rush the ISU as it doesn't have good rear armor.

Oh yeah, good luck with that. If I'm not wrong ISU 1 shot can take down 90% health of the Puma ( or was it 99% ) ?

Not to mention those AT nade from Conscript and other tanks/ AT gun too.

The Jadtiger would actually be useful if that damn thing don't get crew shock everyday. Honestly I rather have my Ostheer teammate to go Elephant so when we play 2vs2 and push I can just make Ober and deal with Infantry when my mate with his elephant can rapidly follow me.

Even if we got flank Elephant can still able to run forward or turn better than the damn Jadtiger cause mostly it will get crew shock.

Elephant would be better if it got a better range but yeah, whatever I'm trying to say SturmmingBird got the ideal of ISU all right.

Let's just say that we were lucky that USF come out and less people using ISU. Before WFA it was a nightmare playing axis when almost all of your vet infantry in late game could be fuck in a matter of second.