Basically like this:
http://www.coh2.org/topic/17208/omega-s-japanese-faction
Japan mass produced some decent medium armor, but never deployed it in combat. Allowing them to use those units (Which isn't that big of a leap considering this is a game where Russians fight along Americans) is all that's needed. Other then that the faction just needs lots of AT focused snares and abilities to make up for the lack of heavier armor.
Japan/Late Soviet Union for CoH2 ?
20 Jul 2014, 18:38 PM
#21
Posts: 2561
20 Jul 2014, 18:42 PM
#22
Posts: 368
Basically like this:everyone ignore elbe day it was actually just made up by drunken americans who wanted credit in ww2 and all who disagree is a sovijet fanboy who should be banned
http://www.coh2.org/topic/17208/omega-s-japanese-faction
Japan mass produced some decent medium armor, but never deployed it in combat. Allowing them to use those units (Which isn't that big of a leap considering this is a game where Russians fight along Americans) is all that's needed. Other then that the faction just needs lots of AT focused snares and abilities to make up for the lack of heavier armor and a good AT gun.
20 Jul 2014, 18:42 PM
#23
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
If something was not deployed and haven't seen combat, it can't be in coh2.
Japanese also had a load of modern jet fighters in mountain factiries, yet we don't see them in any ww2 game or rts.
Its because prototypes, even mass produced ones are just prototypes if they have never seen actual combat.
And most of "on pair" jap armor was just prototypes.
Japanese also had a load of modern jet fighters in mountain factiries, yet we don't see them in any ww2 game or rts.
Its because prototypes, even mass produced ones are just prototypes if they have never seen actual combat.
And most of "on pair" jap armor was just prototypes.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
20 Jul 2014, 18:43 PM
#24
Posts: 978
The same way T-34/85s currently rip Panthers in parts from the front. Bullshit history wise but standard gameplay. Those light-medium Japanese tanks could be balanced accordingly.
Tell me again how you plan to beat this
with this
How is an army designed around light tanks with a couple inferior medium tanks, supposed to stand up to an army based around excellent medium tanks and some heavy tanks?
20 Jul 2014, 18:49 PM
#25
Posts: 2561
If something was not deployed and haven't seen combat, it can't be in coh2.Mass production and prototypes are two completely different things. Mass produced means that these were built in number and combat ready. A prototype is just a single test model that might not even be fully functional.
Japanese also had a load of modern jet fighters in mountain factiries, yet we don't see them in any ww2 game or rts.
Its because prototypes, even mass produced ones are just prototypes if they have never seen actual combat.
And most of "on pair" jap armor was just prototypes.
The Chi-nu and Ho-Nii II were fully functional and ready to fight before the end of the war, but it was decided not to put them out on an island defense since they would be pretty much useless in that capacity. They were held back and were ready to use in case of an invasion on Japan. They were ready to fight, but had no use in the battles being fought.
20 Jul 2014, 18:53 PM
#26
Posts: 2561
The same way T-34/85s currently rip Panthers in parts from the front. Bullshit history wise but standard gameplay. Those light-medium Japanese tanks could be balanced accordingly.Pretty much. If they simply gave them a high rate of fire they would be pretty easy to use to flank heavier armor. Plus they had the Ho-Ni and Ho-Nii 3 whose penetration could be inflated slightly, just like the M10 who in real life had the same gun as the M4, but in-game has almost as high as the Jackson.
I don't undersstand why all these forum historians think that for some reason Japan is the only faction that would be implemented with historically accurate stats. Hell, the maxim performs as well as the MG-42. I don't know why they still have these assumptions.
20 Jul 2014, 18:57 PM
#27
Posts: 657
Its just like how the Americans are based around infantry and light armored tank destroyers, Japan would be based around light tanks and infantry with hit and run tactics. Their air force would be their strong point and if they add in naval artillery that would be pretty powerful stuff. Although Italians should be added in first along with the British Commonwealth.
Tell me again how you plan to beat this
with this
How is an army designed around light tanks with a couple inferior medium tanks, supposed to stand up to an army based around excellent medium tanks and some heavy tanks?
Besides, the IJA was heavily into defense and ambushes. Who wants to play against a faction who's main infantry can plant (non-crit) AT mines as a way to make up for their lack of real Tanks? Or gets ambush bonuses for hiding in cover, because that's how the Japanese fought, they ambushed you from the trees and bushes. What about units they spawn out of forests and hedgerows because they had tunnels in there, or they were hiding there all along?
You said "They would be no worse off then the current american faction", but that's not true. They didn't field any equivalent to the M4 Sherman Tank, and they didn't have any equivalent to the M36 Jackson. Imagine if US Armour stopped at the M5 Stuart, and they tried to compensate in other ways?
Insane surprise and versatility bonuses would need to be given to make up for the complete lack of any armour that could go toe-to-toe with what the Soviets or Americans are fielding.
20 Jul 2014, 19:01 PM
#28
Posts: 1701
Pretty much. If they simply gave them a high rate of fire they would be pretty easy to use to flank heavier armor. Plus they had the Ho-Ni and Ho-Nii 3 whose penetration could be inflated slightly, just like the M10 who in real life had the same gun as the M4, but in-game has almost as high as the Jackson.
I don't undersstand why all these forum historians think that for some reason Japan is the only faction that would be implemented with historically accurate stats. Hell, the maxim performs as well as the MG-42. I don't know why they still have these assumptions.
Cant agree moar
Blaue Division - The best corp
BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
20 Jul 2014, 19:02 PM
#29
Posts: 1384
I would love to play as Japan.
They were my favourite in red alert 3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq7DRg1V4nI#t=320
They were my favourite in red alert 3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq7DRg1V4nI#t=320
20 Jul 2014, 19:11 PM
#30
Posts: 4928
everyone ignore elbe day it was actually just made up by drunken americans who wanted credit in ww2 and all who disagree is a sovijet fanboy who should be banned
We didn't fight at Elbe Day.
The same way T-34/85s currently rip Panthers in parts from the front. Bullshit history wise but standard gameplay. Those light-medium Japanese tanks could be balanced accordingly.
Except a T-34/85 can beat a Panther tank. A Ha-Go cannot beat a T-34/76 let alone an 85 or god forbid an IS-2. If we're going to let a lightly armoured tank with a 37mm gun take on decently armoured tanks with 85mm guns or heavily armoured tanks with 100mm guns, then why even bother with authenticity? Just give me a Stormguard faction from Tomh Raider so I can call in Oni Warriors and use the Goddess's hurricane to suppress enemy soldiers and button tanks.
Its just like how the Americans are based around infantry and light armored tank destroyers, Japan would be based around light tanks and infantry with hit and run tactics. Their air force would be their strong point and if they add in naval artillery that would be pretty powerful stuff. Although Italians should be added in first along with the British Commonwealth.
That's the problem with the IJA in CoH2. CoH2 is based around small scale battles, infantry level with some tank combat, not as much but still a keystone and you'll almost absolutely lose without them. The Japanese focused heavily on air and naval forces, the IJA was probably the weakest of all 3. If you want to represent either the air or naval force, you'd just get a faction of call-in air strikes.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
20 Jul 2014, 19:13 PM
#31
Posts: 18
Russia versus Japan would be silly. The Battle of Manchuria was a curb-stomp. The Battle of Khalkhin Gol was also a curb-stomp.
When the Americans reached the Philippines, Japan was already in a downward spiral from which it would never recover. America didn't hardly even deploy any tank destroyers on Japanese-held lands because they weren't necessary.
That said, I believe if you want to fight in the Pacific Theatre, there are two options:
A) USMC vs IJA. This would require two things: 1) Maps that are particularly difficult for tanks to navigate, and 2) non-mirrored scenarios. That is to say, you can have a VP match where Japanese have the high ground with an artillery position, and the Americans have a beachhead, but not, say, the other way around.
B) IJA vs RoC(GMD/CCP). This would be a more evenly matched idea. IJA would have its light tanks and mechanized infantry, and the RoC would have the numbers and a hodgepodge of donated interwar tanks. This is, after all, where most of the IJA was tied up while the IJN was fighting the USN.
When the Americans reached the Philippines, Japan was already in a downward spiral from which it would never recover. America didn't hardly even deploy any tank destroyers on Japanese-held lands because they weren't necessary.
That said, I believe if you want to fight in the Pacific Theatre, there are two options:
A) USMC vs IJA. This would require two things: 1) Maps that are particularly difficult for tanks to navigate, and 2) non-mirrored scenarios. That is to say, you can have a VP match where Japanese have the high ground with an artillery position, and the Americans have a beachhead, but not, say, the other way around.
B) IJA vs RoC(GMD/CCP). This would be a more evenly matched idea. IJA would have its light tanks and mechanized infantry, and the RoC would have the numbers and a hodgepodge of donated interwar tanks. This is, after all, where most of the IJA was tied up while the IJN was fighting the USN.
Nalano
Director of the Friends of Nalano PAC
Attorney at Lawl
"His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen
Director of the Friends of Nalano PAC
Attorney at Lawl
"His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen
20 Jul 2014, 19:22 PM
#32
Posts: 2561
Also please stop trying to make it seem like their best used armor was the Ha-Go. The Ha-Go was a light tank that wasn't designed to go against other tanks. It was their most used since it was the best for the small island battles where there where no real tank battles and maneuvering was difficult. It was much more like the stuart.
Japan's main medium tank was the Chi-Ha:
Which while not quite as good as allied equivalents, was able to penetrate most allied armor at reasonable ranges. Seeing these things go toe to toe with shermans and T-34s wouldn't be ridiculous.
Japan's main medium tank was the Chi-Ha:
Which while not quite as good as allied equivalents, was able to penetrate most allied armor at reasonable ranges. Seeing these things go toe to toe with shermans and T-34s wouldn't be ridiculous.
20 Jul 2014, 19:25 PM
#33
Posts: 1617
Also please stop trying to make it seem like their best used armor was the Ha-Go. The Ha-Go was a light tank that wasn't designed to go against other tanks. It was their most used since it was the best for the small island battles where there where no real tank battles and maneuvering was difficult. It was much more like the stuart.
Japan's main medium tank was the Chi-Ha:
Which while not quite as good as allied equivalents, was able to penetrate most allied armor at reasonable ranges. Seeing these things go toe to toe with shermans and T-34s wouldn't be ridiculous.
Then tell me what would you do vs a ISU-152 or KV-8? What about M4 spam? Japs don't fit into the game, it's better not to leave Europe and make retarded match-ups and bs balance.
20 Jul 2014, 19:26 PM
#34
Posts: 2561
Russia versus Japan would be silly. The Battle of Manchuria was a curb-stomp. The Battle of Khalkhin Gol was also a curb-stomp.Once again quoting history, while knowing nothing about their independent weapons and how they would translate in game. Seriously stop with the history discussion. By that equivalent I should get 20 T34s for ever P4 the german player builds.
When the Americans reached the Philippines, Japan was already in a downward spiral from which it would never recover. America didn't hardly even deploy any tank destroyers on Japanese-held lands because they weren't necessary.
That said, I believe if you want to fight in the Pacific Theatre, there are two options:
A) USMC vs IJA. This would require two things: 1) Maps that are particularly difficult for tanks to navigate, and 2) non-mirrored scenarios. That is to say, you can have a VP match where Japanese have the high ground with an artillery position, and the Americans have a beachhead, but not, say, the other way around.
B) IJA vs RoC(GMD/CCP). This would be a more evenly matched idea. IJA would have its light tanks and mechanized infantry, and the RoC would have the numbers and a hodgepodge of donated interwar tanks. This is, after all, where most of the IJA was tied up while the IJN was fighting the USN.
20 Jul 2014, 19:30 PM
#35
Posts: 2561
Call-ins strikes, heavy long range implacements, and overwhelming armor rushes. It's just as hard for the US to kill a Jagdtiger considering all they have most the time is short barrel M4s.
Then tell me what would you do vs a ISU-152 or KV-8? What about M4 spam? Japs don't fit into the game, it's better not to leave Europe and make retarded match-ups and bs balance.
20 Jul 2014, 19:30 PM
#36
Posts: 4928
Also please stop trying to make it seem like their best used armor was the Ha-Go. The Ha-Go was a light tank that wasn't designed to go against other tanks. It was their most used since it was the best for the small island battles where there where no real tank battles and maneuvering was difficult. It was much more like the stuart.
Japan's main medium tank was the Chi-Ha:
Which while not quite as good as allied equivalents, was able to penetrate most allied armor at reasonable ranges. Seeing these things go toe to toe with shermans and T-34s wouldn't be ridiculous.
I'm aware of that, but they weren't available in nearly as many numbers as the lighter tanks were. And they were still inferior to American and Russian tanks, so you'd basically have the pre-armour update T-34/76 rolling around, not sure what to do if a T-34/85 or worse shows up.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
20 Jul 2014, 19:32 PM
#37
Posts: 2561
That would probably cost around 85 fuel and still be able to penetrate the thin armor of M4s and T34s most the time. 1 might not win against a single tank, but they would be cheap if they performed worse.
I'm aware of that, but they weren't available in nearly as many numbers as the lighter tanks were. And they were still inferior to American and Russian tanks, so you'd basically have the pre-armour update T-34/76 rolling around, not sure what to do if a T-34/85 or worse shows up.
20 Jul 2014, 19:36 PM
#38
Posts: 1617
Call-ins strikes, heavy long range implacements, and overwhelming armor rushes. It's just as hard for the US to kill a Jagdtiger considering all they have most the time is short barrel M4s.
Call-in strikes can be avoided easly, heavy long range emplacements are arty-magnets and overwhelming armor rushes end up in tears due to ATGs and mines. It'll be extreamly hard to deal with. Even the current factions can't deal with it if they don't lose half of their army.
And about the USF, don't forget the M36 and how often you see a Jagdtiger (income problems for OKW). The soviets can just call-in a ISU-152 and still have the resources to build an army of whatever, while OKW won't have any other vehicle.
20 Jul 2014, 19:43 PM
#39
Posts: 2561
My example can still work with the elephant as well. The M36s only advantage is range which is useless against elephants. If it tries to flank infantry based AT will tear it up as well.
Call-in strikes can be avoided easly, heavy long range emplacements are arty-magnets and overwhelming armor rushes end up in tears due to ATGs and mines. It'll be extreamly hard to deal with. Even the current factions can't deal with it if they don't lose half of their army.
And about the USF, don't forget the M36 and how often you see a Jagdtiger (income problems for OKW). The soviets can just call-in a ISU-152 and still have the resources to build an army of whatever, while OKW won't have any other vehicle.
We can play this game forever. Of course all the counters to an ISU can be countered as well. Everything does! But those aren't always available. If a player builds an ISU they probably won't have the resources to build artillery. If they built artillery then they won't have enough supporting troops to stop flanks. These are basics of the game. My point still stands.
20 Jul 2014, 19:56 PM
#40
Posts: 578
Basically like this:
http://www.coh2.org/topic/17208/omega-s-japanese-faction
Japan mass produced some decent medium armor, but never deployed it in combat. Allowing them to use those units (Which isn't that big of a leap considering this is a game where Russians fight along Americans) is all that's needed. Other then that the faction just needs lots of AT focused snares and abilities to make up for the lack of heavier armor.
Japans mass production:
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/wwii/production.asp
Japan mass produced a total of 2,515 tanks from 1939-1945. USA and soviet Union produced more tanks in 1 month than Japan in 7 years. So much to Japans famous "Mass production of tanks.
EPIC
This is Japans super heavy late game call in. THE ULTIMATE WEAPON OF DESTRUCTION from the japanese army.It kills IS-2 with 1 shot. THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE ALL WAITED FOR SO LONG. Its the ultimate tank.
Japan's main medium tank was the Chi-Ha:
Only to give you some historical stats about this tank:
Chi-Ha:
25mm front armour and a 47mm gun. This would be Japans SUPER HEAVY tank.
Even the Germans had better tanks in 1939.this Thing could not even go toe to toe with an old Version of the Panzer III. Hell it would have even Problems against the Panzer II.
EPIC ULTIMATE SUPER HEAVY TANK.
25mm front armour!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes its true!!!
I m sorry to dissapoint you but this Thing is absolute garbage.
People coming up here with myths about Japans famous super strong tanks.hahahahha.
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