Panther

Seems one of the Panther's main problems that keeps coming up is its poor accuracy, especially at max range and the fact it usually needs to move to keep tanks in range and/or LOS without a spotter. When you combine this with average damage, poor moving accuracy and high scatter, misses really miss rather than having a chance to still strike the opposing tank.

If it's going to maintain low DPS, make it consistent at dealing damage. We don't need an AI tank since that's not why we bring a Panther out for its role is supposed to be a tank hunter/destroyer.

This could be overkill, but another suggestion could be to make its main gun as accurate as those of the ATGs so its at least more consistent and then maybe add lower moving penalties. Accuracy from 0.04-0.06 from 0.025-0.05. Of course at max it means a 55% to hit a T-34 at max turns into 88%. Lowering scatter instead may also help if that seems too extreme or a middle ground between the numbers.

Panther:

- Far too Expensive
- Weak damage
- Not enough armour protection or HP
- Range insufficient and easy to get swarmed by weaker tanks.

Am I the only one that really likes how Panther was tailored recently?
I won't comment on price as I don't know if it's too costly or not, play mostly OKW recently, but when you start to use it to exploit its strengths it does get the job done even against far more superior tanks like IS-2. On good terrain Panther is actually able to circle strafe IS-2 turret.
With one of the war spoils OKW commanders you get fire shell that boosts dmg by quite a lot.
Even as OH you can stale game for a while with PaKs as your AT to be able to field Panther.

I did the same thing with a puma i dont need a panther to do that.

tbh i really would like to see the price of a panther at 155-165 (fuel) for the price and the role i feel its worth that much would it need buffing/nerfing/tweaking to achieve that value idk but i feel also to fit its role it can't be 175 fuel that is to expensive for the unit in the factions it currently sits.

You are critical of the Panther- but I find it considerably better than the Jagdpanzer IV, which costs 40 fuel more but in an earlier tier. The OKW is the one tank army. Don't you agree?

Well i find jagdpanzer more useful for the price..mainly due to better DPS and lower pricing.And it being actually able to do the role it is supposed to kiting tank destroyer.Panther on the otehr hand can't do the overall role of tank hunter.The only thing it has is armor really.Speed is matched by allied tanks..range and pen mostly useless stats-due to accuracy and allied tank speed and thin allied tank armor-penetartion is just a wasted number.Shit accuracy ,bad damage and slooow reload.Like i said nerf panther penetration and range...i bet u it will hardly affect the unit much.Just remove these 2 excuses.

Pro-soviet agenda in disguise.

Because an IS2 unsupported is2 easy to come by eh.

They are always backed by Zis or other tanks or cons

Cut the crap Vetlolcake. I play OKW almost exclusively recently.

I did the same thing with a puma i dont need a panther to do that.

Yes but latter in the game Puma looses its reliability quite heavily. Especially when you deal with more targets than one. Panther allows me to take 2-3 T-34 at once. Of course I have to be clever about it and keep my distance + some infantry support but that's just reasonable approach.

Yes but latter in the game Puma looses its reliability quite heavily. Especially when you deal with more targets than one. Panther allows me to take 2-3 T-34 at once. Of course I have to be clever about it and keep my distance + some infantry support but that's just reasonable approach.

U can be clever and keep ur distance with infantry support with jagdpanzer 4 better.It can play the kiting game far better given support as u say..u don't need panther for that.

I find jagdpanzer4 to be too vulnerable to flanks and not very effective against heavies.

I find jagdpanzer4 to be too vulnerable to flanks and not very effective against heavies.

What heavy is there on allied side ..only is-2.As for flanks u said abt keeping the distance and with inf support ,that sounds something jagd would do better.Its damage output is miles better and it doesn't miss all the time.

Jagd is slower than a Panther and you can't flank with it. Being a tank destroyer (or assault gun) means that everything can flank it and give it a hard time.
Panther allows me to be more offensive as well.

Jagd is slower than a Panther and you can't flank with it. Being a tank destroyer (or assault gun) means that everything can flank it and give it a hard time.
Panther allows me to be more offensive as well.

U can't really reliably flank with the current panther either...needs spotter for range use,useless accuracy on move and at range..bad reload and dmg and will be in trouble if it gets up against an at gun or bazookas.Surprise raiding against lightly protected targets..bullying shermans or t-76s..thats about it.Anything higher and panther turns into meek kitten.I find a jagd wall with volks backup more assuring...i can get 2 jagds for price of 1 panther and the truck.its dmg output is far superior.With good positioning and support it performs well...especially in team games..where ur wehr partner can support with turreted p4s into tiger.If needed u can eventually go into the KT or in isu case jagdtiger.Other option is pz 4 dual call in.

I have different views than you. I actually find the Panther a good tank destroyer but very expensive due to the faction's fuel disability. So the 175 fuel panther is basically 263 fuel to me. So the tank is so expensive that only 1 can be realistically fielded. The command panther makes me laugh; It is so expensive that it's usually alone on the field and not commanding anything.

2 Panthers synergize a good deal and are more than the sum of the parts. The duo can fight independent of other units while a single panther cannot. Their 4 machineguns can focus fire and do some damage on infantry but 1 panther alone doesn't cut it. They can quickly knock out a tank with focus fire.

The Jagdpanzer IV I find to be similarly overpriced but it comes earlier which is an advantage.

But if I can wait, I prefer having the panther any day.

Well i find jagdpanzer more useful for the price..mainly due to better DPS and lower pricing.And it being actually able to do the role it is supposed to kiting tank destroyer.Panther on the otehr hand can't do the overall role of tank hunter.The only thing it has is armor really.Speed is matched by allied tanks..range and pen mostly useless stats-due to accuracy and allied tank speed and thin allied tank armor-penetartion is just a wasted number.Shit accuracy ,bad damage and slooow reload.Like i said nerf panther penetration and range...i bet u it will hardly affect the unit much.Just remove these 2 excuses.

I have different views than you. I actually find the Panther a good tank destroyer but very expensive due to the faction's fuel disability. So the 175 fuel panther is basically 263 fuel to me. So the tank is so expensive that only 1 can be realistically fielded. The command panther makes me laugh; It is so expensive that it's usually alone on the field and not commanding anything.

2 Panthers synergize a good deal and are more than the sum of the parts. The duo can fight independent of other units while a single panther cannot. Their 4 machineguns can focus fire and do some damage on infantry but 1 panther alone doesn't cut it. They can quickly knock out a tank with focus fire.

The Jagdpanzer IV I find to be similarly overpriced but it comes earlier which is an advantage.

But if I can wait, I prefer having the panther any day.

2 panthers is mostly a dream for me in any game..and i would take 2 jagds over 1 panther any day.The thing is panther can't be 'trusted',it'll miss horribly inside a fight i'll end up losing the unit..i can atleast trust jagd to do its job if i support and micro it properly.Second problem is its dmg output after being unreliable is also low and slow.When u add the insane price to these problems..no for me.And this is from a guy who has consistently ever since this unit was made teh way it is now,tried in various ways to make it work..3 out of 4 times i rgret not going for the alternative tiger or double jagd.

I don't think I've made 2 panthers in a match. I usually make pumas or 1 jagdpanzer/ 1 panther. Afterwards I MIGHT get a King tiger. OKW is the 1 tank army to me.

This is my point of view about Panther in 1vs1 and 2vs2 only:

Panther as a non - doctrine tank ( both OKW and Ostheer ) need to invest large amount of fuels to get 1 out and I believe that buy the time you got the first Panther on the field, enemy would have the same thing:

- SU-85, M36 Jackson if you decided to build late tier.
- Call in tanks like T34/85mm or IS2/ ISU ( just a bit later ).

So tell me why should I get a Panther in 1vs1 ?

With those tech up fuels and cost for 1 Panther atm ( 175 ), I can just wait for something far better like a Tiger that have good armor, better dealing with infantry and I can get 2 of them ?

Same thing for the Soviet players: A nice combination of Shock Troops + Tier 2 can hold off until KV8/IS2/ISU/T34/85mm come in and you can get 2 of them? ( 4 in case of T34/85mm )

The thing with OKW/Soviet/Ostheer atm is there late tier don't work really well together.

- Ostheer Tier 4: Panther price is too high but only anti-tank/ Brumbar is the same thing/ Panzerwelfer cool down time is long

- Soviet Tier 3: T34/76mm is nice but only in mid game, M5 Halftrack only anti-infantry and reinforce only and T70 only good if you can get it fast enough

- Soviet Tier 4: Su/85mm is good against enemy tank, Su-76 is too crappy thanks to light armor, not really that good against infantry and the barrage is same asme. Katchusa hit area is big and mostly German can get out without too much damage.

- OKW Tier 4: Ober very good against infantry, Luch is lower than average ( would be better if can come out sooner ) , Panther only good against tanks ( costly ) and SturmTiger is so much of a troll unit .

But USF is another story: They don't depend on call - in tanks much because all of their units in late tier is rock hard!

- M4 Sherman can deal with medium tanks in the same level like P4, Stug 3 and too good against infantry thanks to HE round.

- M36 Jackson even with thin armor it can just hold fire and stay in the back of the Sherman to wait and see if enemy anti-tank unit like Puma/ Panther coming up.

- M8 howziter can kill infantry wayyyy better than what SU-76 did.

So it's maybe not just about the price but it's about the design of those late tier: Make them more useful and worth it so people will stop masturbate for better call-in units. ( And don't only fix 1 faction because those fanboy gonna bitching about it - OMG WHY LOWER PANTHER PRICE WHEN SU-76 is crap or it too good blah blah blah ). Really, don't. if you gonna say the ideal of fixing those tier then say it for all factions.

- Ostheer Tier 4: Lower fuel price for Panther down to 155/ Panzerwelfer cool down time need to be lower and the range maybe smaller so it can be fair for Russian players. Remember that Russian Counterpart Kachusa need to fire 2-3 times so German have more chance of running away but when Panzerwelfer fired all the round will land in 1 hit.

- Soviet Tier 3: I don't know what to suggest.

- Soviet Tier 4:, Su-76 need to be like the USF M8 Howziter: Crazy good against enemy infantry. Katchusa rate of fire need to be way faster and the erea of effect need to be smaller. so it can kill enemy better.

- OKW Tier 4: Luch would be better if they move it down to tier 2 or 3 but make them more costly ( 85 fuels ) so it could be something like the USF Stuarts. Panther fuel to 155 and SturmTiger aim time need to be faster ( keep the same reload speed, this unit damage is too good atm.

As for the moment, my tactic with the OKW Vehicles is this: Get a Puma out then wait for Command Panther:

- Command Panther have extra sight so it can scout for Ober infantry.
- Mark Target from Command Panther is nice to deal with rushing T34/85mm or IS2.
- Extra speed and sight can help the Puma flanking, fire the Special round into enemy SU-85/ M36 jackson so your army can move up quicker.

P/S: Not really relate but:

- Can we make the USF/OKW at nade to be the same as Panzerfaust + Russian at nade ( The heat-seeking anti-tank weapon ? ). It's not fair when enemy vehicles can just back out but when USF/ OKW tried to back out they will always be hit. If not than make the panzerfaust + Russian at nade to be like the OKW/USF one: Will not work if enemy vehicles back out.

- Can we add hold fire to the Panther?

^^

Command panther..extra sight...are you sure? I thought the C panther only improves the sight of other vehicles, but the C panther itself does not enjoy the bonus.

Buildings:

T2 (medic), T4 (for obersoldaten), and then T3 last.

or

T2 (medic), T3, T4

Yes I'm sure. I just test it in game and it did have more sight than normal panther.

I always use it with Ober to be a effect group.

How much is the extra sight? Is it a bit like the ostheer with and without spotting scopes? (double view range?)

Its too expensive with its innacurracy. There is little point to high range when even standing still it cant hit a target 10 meters in front of it sometimes. Every shell counts, and a shell that hits the ground vs a medium tank is retarded. It needs less scatter and higher accuracy; its a TD!

@coh2player: I'm not really sure but at least a lot better than the normal Panther.

Here's the picture of normal Panther: http://i.imgur.com/F27i886.jpg

Here's the pictrue of Command Panther: http://imgur.com/eoXtx2a

You can see that Command Panther got better sight.

@braciszek: I agree about the expensive part. They could make it cheaper than that.

But with extra sight, it's very helpful for your Obersodaten to see enemy target and shoot them.

Also, with that extra sight you can deal with enemy tanks better. Sure, it may miss but better than nothing yes ?

Extra sight also help the Puma to fire better when going with the Command Tank.