Soviet Defensive Commander

My attention spam on one particular tactics is shorter than my pinkie finger. I also seem to have a knack for commanders that are not-as-popular. In the community I hang out in, the general reaction to the Soviet Defensive commander (the community one) is that it seems to be rather weak. A few even go harsh enough to wave it off as "trash choice". I am rather confused by why it is regarded in that fashion.

I did try out a few games in my spare time, and I felt the abilities are all competent, but don't scale very well into late-game. It does however make T1 builds viable since I can simply call in the handy light AT gun (this thing vets really fast for some reason) that only seems to be a threat to light armored vehicles. Late game I can go for a Penal-Sniper-Su85 composition that will do decently in my opinion (sort of similar to the Siberian guide, minus the Penal replacing the Cons). But that's the thing, the skills by that point seem out-dated and don't give me any edge (maybe the tank trap might be a bit of use, the 120mm as well). I can still argue that it still makes this commander useful since the main playstyle (at least to my knowledge) is that allies have a advantage early game, so this commander simply makes that early game gap even wider by providing the cheap AT and strong artillery unit.

Can anyone enlighten me on why its really disliked? I'll post the skillset in case some folks are unfamiliar with the commander:

CP2 - Call in DHsK HMG
CP2 - Call in light AT (forgot the name srry)
CP2 - Call in 120mm mortar
CP2 - Plant AI mines for only 7 ammunition (slightly effective, needs to stack closely for good wipe)
CP2 - Tank traps

Because its trash overnerfed doctrine that have medicore early game potential and zero late game potential.

120mm is the only good choice here and its in two other much more useful doctrines that actually have late game as well.

Tank traps have been buffed, but they are still bad choice and light AI mines arrive way too late at 2cp.

Both DSHK and 45mm AT gun are waste of menpower as maxim performs better then DSHK while costing less and 45mm is just a 200mp PTRS on wheels.

My main problem with it is that you have to go T4 for any decent lategame AT, and then you dont have any decent tank thats AI. I rather have T2, T3 with a call-in commander.

alot of soviets really rely on call-ins to skip tech. this only lets you "skip" t2 with the mg and at gun, both of which are not as good as the normal counterpart.

no tanks, no arty, no conscript upgrades, light at gun is so small caliber its almost there just to eat popcap

these are the general opinions of the community that i know of. personally, i think it has a place in the roster for team games and certain situations. i wouldnt be picking it super often though

I was thinking they should let the mini AT gun garrison and retreat like the raketenwerfer.

It's not bad against Ostheer, but it's pretty bad against OKW.

Against Ostheer you can go for a T1 opening and get the mini AT gun against scout cars. After some other call-ins you can go for T3 and quickly harass with T70 or go directly for a T34. All the wile spamming mini mines to put the hurt on any infantry movements.

If you go T1 against OKW, they will go for the Flak AA halftrack and your mini AT gun just does not have the fire power to do serious damage against it. Meanwhile the AA halftrack is extremely potent against your T1 infantry/conscripts. You will get pushed back, and any quick tech move to T3 tanks is met with a Puma+rackettenwerfer/panzerschrek. Any attempt to mine up the place with mini mines is met with mobile AA truck forcing your engies back. With no option for heavier tanks, the OKW can just continue to build up Pumas to counter your T3, and elite infantry to simply out-shoot your penals/conscripts. At this point you also can't continue mining because the Pumas will drain your T34/76 health with long range shots, forcing you to keep your 2/3 engie squads close to them.

As noted you don't get anything in the late game

The 45mm will vet fast (because it's cheap), but at 2CP will have trouble finding anything it can usefully damage


When everything came at 0CP it was kind of interesting, now it's just meh.

It would probably be good on Angermunde, otherwise not a lot too it.